Not carpet related

[FloorCareMD]

OK, i know this is vct tile related but I know that many do tile floors as well here.
Kay Chemical....
Anyone familiar with their MarketStar floor finish?
Local grocery chain now has it in their warehouse. Store managers state it is under 40 dollars for 5 gallons and they want to use this stuff. I service a few of these stores and they want to now supply the finish from their warehouse instead of having us bring in our finish.
Does it last? Strip off easily? Respond to propane buffing? Level?
Could not find any info on the web except that it is made by EcoLab, the same company that makes Sam's Club wax, which scares me.

[TheCleaningDude]

I have no idea, sorry.

But I am curious, do they only contract you for labor and equipment time but supply the chems?

[Jamie]

I am assuming you communicated to them the difference that would make during the snow season. Did he at least acknowledge it?

Depending on how much this account is worth to you, maybe you should do a finish for free and remind them of the benefit.

Regarding their new products, why don't you offer to do 1 aisle with your products and the rest of the space with theirs. This way they will get to see the difference in quality.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers

Jamie

[David Edwards]

From what I've been able to find, it's a 25% solids finish with "outstanding burnishing response." Supposedly designed for floors that are burnished 4 to 7 times per week.

That being said, I've never before heard of it and (personally) will not use EcoLab finishes.

I would never try to make your decision or claim to have the one and only "right" answer, but I don't let any customer dictate what I use. The last one to try was a rather large yacht maintenance company here. I told the president of that company that he can choose what I use if I can choose what oils and parts his company uses on their customers yachts. He asked what I know about yachts and I asked what he knows about cleaning. I still clean their places (3 buildings) weekly with whatever I want.

Many people would say I'm stupid for taking such a hard line about this, and maybe they're right. But the fact is that you simply can't guarantee results (initial or ongoing) with a product that has been chosen by someone else based solely on price. You can't stand behind it.

And that doesn't work for me.

Just my own 2 cents on it.

[Rob D]

Well, I like David's 2 cents. I remember a painting job I had done awhile back where I let the customer talk me into using "his" favorite paint. That decision cost me a lot of time (which is money). It's amazing how different paints spread on a wall and I have done enough wax jobs to say its pretty similar to painting. Every wax lays alittle different and wears different. If your slow on work then maybe it's worth accommodating, if not then move on. Life is kinda funny though, who knows maybe this will be your favorite choice in wax from now on.. Best o'luck to ya

[TheCleaningDude]

Nice post, Mr. Edwards!

Why are some businesses so cheap? I just got finished doing a fairly large job for a leisure company that hasn't had their carpets cleaned in who knows how long.

They don't even know!

I'm wondering if this 'corner cutting' is a growing trend with larger size businesses?

[Jamie]

Yes a very good post David.

I think you are right, there are times when you have to put the customer back in their place like that. Your comment was a make or break statement that they either respected you for or replaced you for, and in your case he respected you.

Good on you.

[JuddBowers]

Have you ever tried the maroon chem free pads to do the scrub? I use them. Not on that heavy of trafficked floor, but it works great at removing 3 or 4 layers of top coat. Stripper is out of the equation, I just use hot water, enough to keep the floor damp.

[FloorCareMD]

We tested them a few years back. They worked and didn't work. I"ll explain.
They worked on a perfectly flat floor with no dips, humps, imperfections. Most retail location tile floors do not have a perfectly flat floor. results were blotchy. Plus, in grocery stores, there are always spills/stains, tons of edges and corners to clean too.
They did work in small exam rooms and such.

[David-Hebert]

So they want you to use an off brand finish now when all they had to do is move stuff before and the price was built in?

Did you discount the service do to no strips or recoats?
WHY do they want you to use a product they pay for when most of the cost is labor? So knock off the price of their finish you use during the job, but tell them you will add on any additional labor/ time involved in in the application or removal of the product.
This has worked for me in a few situations

David.

[JuddBowers]

We tested them a few years back. They worked and didn't work. I"ll explain.
They worked on a perfectly flat floor with no dips, humps, imperfections. Most retail location tile floors do not have a perfectly flat floor. results were blotchy. Plus, in grocery stores, there are always spills/stains, tons of edges and corners to clean too.
They did work in small exam rooms and such.

I also had problems with low/high spots with them. At first I would just make a second pass, kind of spot clean, after it was dry. Then I started using the thin, super strip black pads between the maroon pad and machine. Took care of the problems with low spots. I've also found good and bad as far as quality in the product/manufacturer.

Corners and edges still require cans of the stripper spray from my experience. I do it first just to get it out of the way.

I never use Ecolab products. I learned my lesson.

[FloorCareMD]

So they want you to use an off brand finish now when all they had to do is move stuff before and the price was built in?

Did you discount the service do to no strips or recoats?
WHY do they want you to use a product they pay for when most of the cost is labor? So knock off the price of their finish you use during the job, but tell them you will add on any additional labor/ time involved in in the application or removal of the product.
This has worked for me in a few situations

David.

David,
How have you been? Miss the old board sometimes.
No we did not discount the service. Weekly price for maintenance was just that, maintenance only. Strips were at no charge as long as we sold them the chemicals. Some Eco Lab rep had all the store owners and managers attend a sales meeting and made promises that their stuff is the answer to all floor problems. One owner even told me that the finish is the best because he had been given a tech sheet at the meeting that says so

[TheCleaningDude]

How much do you want to bet that the managers bonus is tied to the store budget and the less he spends on essentials like cleaning, the more he bags at the end of the year?

The two stores that have not stripped or even top coated in two years have 4 day floor maintenance. We provide an annual strip and recoat at no additional cost to the store, provided they allow us to bring in our chemicals, and with the year contract. Been doing them this way for over a decade. Now here is where the store cheapness comes in. They claimed for the past two years that to move the displays, items, etc. etc. off of the sales floor would cost them too much labor, so they chose to skip the annual strips and also the deep scrub and recoats. Most of their employees are students making less than minimum wage.
Even with 4 day maint. of autoscrubbing and buffing, you can imagine what a store looks like with no floor finish applied in two years. We service a competitor store of theirs not too far away that keeps up with an annual strip and two recoats per year and that floor looks awesome with only 3 day per week maint.
What puzzles me is this manager knows how great his store looked for years up until he chose to skip scheduled maintenance for two years and all of a sudden it is our floor finish's fault.
I know that there is not any brand of finish out there that would hold up for that long in this store with only four day maint. and absolutely no attention given to the floor on off days, not even dust mopping.