Untwisting Pile - Residential

[lowxposure]

So I've posted a few times here and I'd like to first thank everyone for their awesome support, there's a lot to follow so please hang on.

I have a concern. A buddy of mine brought me some brand new carpet displays from the local hardware store. Each rug is just big enough for me to run my Orbiter and test a few different spots. Primarily I wanted to find my failure point... how long I could run the machine without damaging the carpet. The answer, not long. After five seconds of running the machine I noticed that the pile had started to untwist in a few places (Shaw polyester cut pile). I ran the machine again for 10, 15, and 20 seconds. After 20 seconds the fibers had untwisted quite a bit.

I'm running the cotton bonnet that is provided with the Orbiter and it's pretty heavily textured. I lubricated the bonnet with DS2 and I pre-sprayed the carpet.

So, what could I be doing wrong? Is it not possible to clean this carpet with an OP machine without damaging it? Nevermind the entire debate surrounding HWE vs. VLM on residential. I frequently hear folks on other boards say that VLM is just another tool in the tool box and that "a construction worker wouldn't build a house with just a hammer", but the fact is... I have a Lowboy and an Orbiter with a TM and porty well out of reach. Can I make it work or do I need to drop residential and focus solely on commercial? (Commercial market isn't that large here thus my focus on residential)

My name is Jeff by the way, and any advice is greatly appreciated. Surely some of you have done VLM on residential carpets without destroying your customers carpet!

[encapman]

Hi Jeff,

Untwisting the fiber or "tip bloom" as it's commonly called is a concern with cut pile carpet using any form of rotary machine especially an OP. That includes a standard floor machine, orbital machine, Cimex machine, RX20/HOSS/Rotovac, (anything that turns in a circle). The Cimex won't do damage as quickly as other forms of rotaries due to the fact that they turn left and right simultaneously. The machine with the least potential for damage is a CRB machine like as our BrushEncap. However any form of agitation, even vacuuming of foot traffic can adversely affect cut pile carpet. I have even distorted cut pile gently rubbing the fiber by hand to remove a stain from the fiber. Sadly this is the nature of the beast.

Possible damage to the pile becomes even more of an issue when it's a cheap builder grade cut pile - which is likely the quality of something from the hardware store. In fact you mentioned that it is "polyester". Polyester has the WORST wear characteristics of any carpet fiber. So that adds another wrinkle - what type of fiber are we attempting to clean? For example, a type 6 nylon cut pile carpet will hold up to abrasion much better than polyester carpet.

You can lessen the affect of agitation by using a soft microfiber bonnet (not the MicroBeast). The Microbeast is a killer all around bonnet, but it also has scrub strips. Our standard soft microfiber bonnet is the gentlest bonnet that you can use. We specifically recommend our standard microfiber for gentle bonneting applications.


On a full size OP machine (not the little 12" Orbiter), you can also use a glide under the bonnet. The glide is designed to take some of the weight from the bonnet and lower the chance of distortion to the pile. And of course, start off with wet bonnets and pre-spray the carpet with an ample amount of detergent to keep it lubricated. Another thing to keep in mind, and this is very important, is to keep the machine moving. NEVER stand in one place with the machine running on the carpet. If you needed to spend more time on a particular spot it's best to do criss-cross patterns over the spot.

Like I said above, there's no way to completely eliminate tip bloom with a residential cut pile carpet. On the other hand, commercial carpets are generally more durable and can withstand careful use of machines might possibly damage a lesser residential carpet. Agitation is a significant part of the cleaning pie. The important consideration of us then is to try to use agitation with caution and minimize the potential for damage.


I hope this info helps to put this all in perspective. Perhaps others can add their observations too.

[lowxposure]

Thank you Rick for your response... so you know, I've been nothing but impressed with your products and your customer service. You've built an outstanding business.

As for my carpet test I was admittedly pushing the carpet to find it's failure point, so I was doing things I would never do in a customers house (letting the machine set, over wetting the carpet etc.) and I was just taken back by how quickly I reached it. At 10 seconds the carpet was visibly damaged from a standing inspection. After I finished with the test up to 20 seconds the carpet looked like it was 5 years old in a rental unit that was never vacuumed.

Is cut pile (esp. polyester) your worst case scenario for OP cleaning?

When I reach a deep set stain would it be better to attempt removal with a spotting tool, such as the Mytee S300, before hitting the carpet with my OP?

I think part of my problem is my mentality. I've seen too many videos of "miracle" machines making a single pass over some ratty carpets and leaving a trail of cleanliness. Granted my bonnet isn't great (got a shipment en route from ES as we speak), but I don't know how well I'll be able to clean a fiber without destroying it.

[Blue Ridge Floor Care]

Good info Rick. That inherent risk is one of the reasons I have avoided the residential market.

[drytouch]

The HWE industrial complex (cleaners, equipment manufacturers, 'certification' organizations) are obsessed with 'tip bloom' as a means of de-legitimizing VLM.

All I can say is in over six years here in Florida, doing residential almost every day with both 175's and Roto 360 type machines, I've never heard of a single customer complaint about 'tip bloom'.

I didn't even know what 'tip bloom' was until I started reading the BBs.

I will say this-- I find the 360 'powerhead' type machines, which the HWE guys love, to be very aggressive indeed. You can bonnet orientals all day long, but a 360 will quickly ruin a hand knotted rug. I know were talking wall to wall here, but this seems illustrative.

And doesn't HWE have its own fiber damage issues--the very aggressive presprays commonly used, because there's (360s aside) no agitation, combined with mid 200 degree water temps often causes 'felting', does it not?

Just my two cents.

[richgallina]

It is also important to post vac right after while carpet is still damp or at least rake it. Vacuuming works much better IMHO!

[Shorty]

Rich,
what type of vacuum do you use to vacuum damp carpet ?

Do you have any water / electrical problems with moisture in the vac; motor/s ?

Short 1

[richgallina]

Shorty, I use the PowrFlite 757 and the light vac they have. Not a very expensive vac at all. Never a problem with electrical. If it's too damp soil may clump up but I dry off the beater bar and I'm good. I'm on my second vacuum in 15 years and my original still works perfect!

[Shorty]

Arghhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ANOTHER piece of equipment not manufactured in 220/240 volt & sent down under.



dfsikjasdgijoiadd'gk mpeo0r8tgeroj 098




That makes me feel better.


I think.



Thanks Rich.

Short 1

[richgallina]

Oh yea, i forgot Shorty. Same thing as Sanitaire. The reason I use the Vacs with one motor is because they're dirt 'extraction' is usually bypassed using the fan assembly. With the duel motors, one of the motors runs the beater and the other uses suction below the bag that can possibly suck the moisture into the motor. I'm sure you know that but just in case someone else is lurking!

[Shorty]

Yeah, thanks Rich.

I'm VERY partial towards the Dysons, I'm on my fourth one now, Dyson Animal, DC41.

We still have out original DC14 used just for home which I got back in '96.

These only have the one motor, and yes, we can & do use them for vaccing; damp carpet.

My 18" Windsor Versamatic has paper bags and TWO motors, so that has definately been out of the question.

I must admit though, I still think that the older Dysoon's were much stronger in construction than the newer models.

They were made in the U.K. these newer one are now made in ( I think ), Taiwan.

Only needed a five cent coin to change the drive belt.

On my 3rd Dyson, a Ball, it was a computer part that started at AU$145 just for the flamin' plastic bit with all the wires in it.

Short 1

[cammo54]

Hey Shorty, glad you're having fun with your Dyson Animal DC41!
I've had nothing but trouble since buying one about 2 years ago. I've burnt out 2 motors even though I was cleaning the main filter first every 2 weeks, then every week and now even after 1 day!
Alot of times now it appears to overheat and stop. After about 30 minutes it's ready to go again!
Yes it's not as strong as other models but certainly picks up alot of soil etc.
I'm not rough on any tools, but have had to replace a few parts over the course of 2 years and don't think I'll buy another. The latest problem is the latch holding the canister lid on the top just broke off, probably need to buy a new canister assembly?
I have an old DC14 which I think is bullet proof and it will now be my go to machine for poorly maintained rentals (and some owner-occupied).
I recently purchased a Sebo 370 Comfort which not only sounds like a real vacuum cleaner but looks professional and I don't have to contend with emptying the canister as with the Dyson.
Just thought I would share this with you.
Rob

[encapman]

I agree with Rob. The Dyson does function well - the vacuuming action is very good. However the build quality is awful. It's basically a cheaply made plastic toy when compared to a real commercial vacuum. I've run a couple of them and they were nothing but a repair headache. Maybe the older units were better.

[Greggy]

This is very true..Well, quality pros charge according to the type of carpeting, the services you need and the size of the job. The entire process can take one to three hours...

[Dave Lyall]

@Drytouch "the hwe industrial complex".......I love it :-)

Jeff-
Polyester is going to be the type of fiber that looks and feels great at first, but holds up poorly to traffic and lacks resiliency.....the secret to successful op cleaning is to keep the machine moving and the carpet dampened with encap solution. You don't ever want to leave the machine running while standing still, or you will distort a cut pile carpet pretty quickly. I think the only problem you're running into, is the fact that you're only cleaning small carpet samples.....which doesn't allow the space to keep the op machine moving. Rick also mentioned the use of a glide which will help...as they reduce friction between the pad and carpet. Tip blooming with proper op cleaning is really a non issue. It sounds like you've got a couple of good machines to work with, don't give up on the residential end just yet! Good luck.

Ps - some advice I wish I was given when starting out....

Think twice before buying a portable.....they are frustrating and inefficient.