Someone e-mailed me asking about my post regarding Releasit only costing "peanuts" to work with. I thought I'd share my response with all of you...


Encap-Clean DS sells for $120 including free shipping

Encap-Clean DS mixes at 4 oz per gallon

So each gallon of concentrated Encap-Clean DS will mix up 32 gals of usable product.

Each gallon of diluted product can clean 300 sq ft.

32 gallons of solution times the 300 sq ft equals 9,600 sq ft of carpet cleaning potential with each gallon of Encap-Clean DS

9,600 sq ft times 4 gallons per case equals 38,400

$120.00 for the case of Encap-Clean DS divided by 38,400 sq ft comes to .003 per sq ft.

And .003 is a mighty small number.





Rick Gelinas

Rick, did you have to take off your shoes and socks to count all those numbers?

Kevin Pearson

Yep I had off both my shoes
and the shoes of all my kin too.




Rick Gelinas

Like I said it is not peanuts, it's toes.

Chemical costs for encap cleaning rank right up there with Host and Capture methods.

It is like the word clean, everybody has a different idea of what clean means, and we all have a different idea of what peanuts are when it comes to cost of products

i didnt know Host / Capture cleaning products were cheap...now i do i guess lol. learn somethin new each day

thanx --- Derek.

heres another math problem
this saturday i have a major renovation job for a hospital that is pissed' off with all the HWE professionals.. and I use that term loosely.
I am not on their HWE list by the way.. lol

but Saturday, I have a 5 hour, 799.00 job, guaranteed results on my part in advance after my presentation and demonstration, thus not making it a mere conversation (how does that sound Rick?)
This hospital has just allocated 8500 dollars to replace all the carpeting,, about 5k sq ft. worth.
I am going to save them about 7700.00 and leave the biggest cheerleader in the world.

Rick G... Thanks so much. This is a hugh account not only leading to thousands of sq. feet with in this hospital and all of its satellite offices whicH I cured one from all the HWE problem spots just to get to this one.
But also the Chief of Staff saw the 2k sq. that i demo'd. yes, I know.. demo'd that much. Hey , from trashed to new, it was so much. .. really.
And now the doctors are wanting biz cards, nurses, etc.
The proudest week of my 8 year career. without a doubt.
And steam cleaning wasnt allowed.
take a bonnet machine, some releasit and a cimex and watch attitudes change and the rooms light up with smiles.
this is in a hospital clinic, next door to the hospital itself.
The inhouse floor crew, used a porty after all the out of towner HWE's butchered it, it was wet literally for 3 days, a man slipped on the meeting joint where the wet carpets/VCT meet, broke his leg.
Hilarious.

so encap (and a few pads) saved the day. When I say this I mean it,, they look brand new. and clean to boot. I ran the bonnet over them to make sure and test it out.
God Bless America and cimex encapsulation.

MMM MMM GOOD

and the best part, to know that i made a great morning wage and saved this budget stricken hospital nearly 8k. Feels good not to say the least of the 'hero' status I have now in there. LOL

Steve Dobson
ProFloor
Custom Cleaning Services

"you cant make that much per hour!! i know that for a fact because i dont!"

good job Steve. how'd you go about snagging this account?

take care and enjoy --- Derek.

Hey Don,

Show me the breakdown of how you can get Host or Capture down to .003 per sq ft.

LOL






Rick Gelinas

the big picture is getting missed. Even if Host, Capture and Releasit cost the same per sq. ft., the production times of these systems are painfully slow in comparison to Cimex/Releasit.

Whenever you do the math on cost of operation of a truck-mount in Canada, the cost is in the neighborhood of $55/hr plus. and you can only produce between 500 and 1000 sq.ft. per hour. If you are one of the fortunate guys who gets $0.15/sq. ft. commercially, you would generat between $75 & $150/hr. So by the time you take out the expense of $55/hr. You are only taking home between $20 & $95/hr. most guys don't even do that well.

It's not what you make, it's how much you get to keep.

Rick Thode
Cimex Canada

oh Don was being sarcastic?

well since neither of the aforementioned systems can come close to comparing with the results and productivity of Encap'ing i think we're safe

thanx --- Derek.

Not once have I ever said that the system does not work, as a matter of fact, I have been a strong supporter of this cleaning method and use it all the time. We clean millions of sq ft each year with this system, and track our costs very closely.
My claim is that the chemical costs for this system is not "peanuts" when you compare the amount of chemical one uses in this system vs. any other system used by to day's professional carpet cleaner.
Most VLM systems are heavy users of chemical, and if I was a manufacturer I would certainly go after this business.
The fact of the matter is this, encapsulation cleaning systems use a lot of detergent, and anyone who claims anything differently must be selling encap products.

Interesting costs for a tm system. How do you come up with the $55.oo figure? Does that include any figure for labour cost?

Ken Martin

Don,

How in the world does .003 per sq ft equate to costly???

I guess cleaning with just plain water would be cheaper.

LOL




Rick Gelinas

Compared to other systems we use that is expensive.
My statement was that encap cleaning systems use alot more detergent than alternative methods.
1 gal of encap detergent RTU will clean 300 sq ft. {8 oz. of detergent}
HWE prespray same 8 oz of detergent will clean 4 times that area
Bonnet 8 oz will clean 600 sq ft and cost about 1/2 of encap products.

What more can I say, your chemical cost will increase, hopefully labor costs go down. Equipment will last longer, with a lot less down time.
Overall the system is great, I am just making a point that your chemical costs as a percentage of gross sales will increase.

Last year our chemical costs increased by almost 3%, labour costs down by 1.5%, the increase in chemical costs can be attributed to our switching most of our maintenance cleaning over to the encap process.
This is our experience, and I stick by my claim that the system uses a ton of detergent. You can break it down to the smallest denominator possible to make it look like nothing, but the proof is in the pudding.

Ahhhh, now I see your problem.

Don, you really need to switch from using an 8 oz encap detergent to a more economical 4 oz detergent.





Rick Gelinas

The numbers are right off a bottle of Releasit
Mix 8oz to a gallon of water.

Don,

There are two flavors of Releasit Encap-Clean.

There is Encap-Clean (8 oz per gal)
And there is Encap-Clean DS (4 oz per gal)

--- the "DS" stand for Double Strength
It's a money saver.





Rick Gelinas

I switched to the DS when it first came out, the main reason is- a gallon of concentrate will go twice as far as a gallon of the regular strength, which means I don't have to carry as many bottles of the concentrate on the truck.

I don't remember the cost of the regular strength, but the cost of the DS works out to be less per sq ft of Ready-to-Use.

As far as I know, everything else is the same.

Gary

It sounds like Don needs to make is own chemicals so he can get it cheaper.LOL

it will run off the right side of my monitor..
LOL

start over.

Steve Dobson
ProFloor
Custom Cleaning Services

Stephen I think we just ought to see how far down the page it will go. LOL

Kevin Pearson

I'm done, made my point, does not matter if it is double strength or not the system is a big user of detergents, matters not who the manufacturer is.
Thanks to all those who e-mailed to agree, yet did not want their names to appear on this baord.

It may be a big user of detergent but it is still inexpensive detergent and I am not sure what point you made that was valid. I am not trying to be rude I just am scratching my brain as to how you think you made a point.

Kevin Pearson

You say it is a big user, but inexpensive. Excuse me but the seems to be a contradiction. If it uses a lot of detergent [ and my point is it uses much more detergent per sq. ft. than any other system we use] than it can not be inexpensive.
The system rely's on the detergent system and aggitation to be successful, you can not cut back on the dilution rate [like you can with other systems] or the system fails. You must follow the recommended dilutions and the only way to overcome the high amount of detergent applied to the carpet is to move faster on lightly soiled carpets or the reverse on heavily soiled carpets is to slow down and do multiple passes.
You can believe me or not, but in my 38 years in this business I think I have a fair idea of what I am saying in this case. The system rely's on a lot of detergent to make it work properly. PERIOD..........

Don,

Now how in the world does 4 ounces of concentrate to clean 300 sq ft amount to being expensive???

A gallon of mixed detergent can clean 300 sq ft so the end user cost will be 78 cents. Therefore, to clean 1,000 sq ft will costs 2.60

Now if I charge the industry standard of 10 cents per sq ft to clean that 1,000 sq ft of carpet I will yield $100. And it will take me 30 minutes to clean it. So my cost to earn $100 in a half hour will be $2.60 - NOT TOO SHABBY.

I don't know about Canada Don, but in the States that amounts to a very good return on my investment. Show me some real numbers that can top that.




Rick Gelinas

he wanted to make his point and by gosh i guess he made it lol.

maybe he means that in comparison to ANY OTHER METHOD, Encap'ing uses the most detergent, hence it costs more $$ for detergent. i dont know this for a fact, i think only Don does, but i can accept that as truth.

in REALITY it is not expensive to Encap. in relation to other methods, maybe it is more costly (if Don's calculations are true), BUT with the figures Rick menioned about 10 posts before mine, and i accept that they are true also, noone can say that it is EXPENSIVE.

so point well made!! i guess lol


i mean Don, are you saying that Ricks 1st post on this thread is a lie? because if you are using DS it is terribly obvious he is right. or are you saying that while he is right, it still is more expensive than other methods? if that is the case, so be it....but with all respect to someone with ALOT more years of experience than me, so what? as you said the results speak for themselves, so what is your point? if .003 cents per sq.ft. is expensive compared with other methods, can you give some like numbers for another method? so if other methods use less chem, are we talking a savings of hundreds? thousands?

if so, a small pittance for the incredible results i know I am getting over any previous methods i've tried.

thanx --- Derek.

What cracks me up about the whole issue is it is all over pennys.
Most CC'ers have no education past high school.
Avg. college grads make about 25-30k per year, or 15.00, per hour, while CC'ers with no education, and most have no common sense, have the capability to go out and make 100 per hr. minus overhead which varies. But should leave atleast 60.00 per hr, possibly even 70.00 if you manage the funds and keep overhead low.
We arent influencing young kids like our teachers.
we arent saving lives like firemen and rescue workers.
We arent defending the public like our police officers.
we arent in harms way in any way shape or form, other than the high PH cleaners.LOL

We arent defending America in Iraq.
For gods sake, we work with peoples dander, dirt and their pet urine. It is really one step up from the trash truck really.
Yes, there is an art to it if someone truly studies and learns and becomes a craftsman of the trade and really gives their custys value added performance, but that is less than 10% of cleaners IMHO.

Not to offend any one or mention names. But a very realistic comment none the less.
(industry wide I might add.. not on this forum or any other)

so who cares if it costs .49 cents more to do a thousand sq. ft that HWE, which I totally disagree with. Esp when we consider the ease, lack of equipment needed for encap and the productivity and thus increase revenue, that is attainable with encapsulation.
I must not get it.

Steve Dobson
ProFloor
Custom Cleaning Services

I said it MAY use more detergent, Don, you did not read. This is also what you have said. But the detergent is not expensive to buy. This is not inconsistent.

I do not know what kind of math they teach up there Don but .003 is a third of a penny and that is not much. I only use two methods Encap with the Cimex and HWE with a Butler. I can tell you it is much more expensive to buy chemicals for the Butler.

I have 12 years in the business and while it is not 38 it is still long enough to know that .003 is not a big number. I still do not know how you can prove what you are trying to say without numbers to back it up. PERIOD...

Stephen it was 5:45 am when I read your post and it was hilarious even at that time of morning. Thanks for the humor.

Kevin Pearson

I give up, now I see the problem you are spending more money on detergent for your Butler Tm than Encap cleaning detergents. Something is crazy about that.

Here are the numbers in the Canadian market place
I am expressing these as a percent of gross sales so as not to confuse those how do not understand the Canadian dollar and that our gallon is bigger than an American gallon.

HWE our chemical costs to run our truckmounts is less than 1% of gross sales.

Encapsulation cleaning with a Cimex and anybody's detergent you wish to use runs at just under 5% of gross sales.

And that folks is not peanuts!

Thanks for the numbers and I for one have certainly enjoyed the many post. Good luck to you Don with all your peanuts. lol

Kevin Pearson

Actually Kevin just came back from the register's office and have started a new company.
"PLANTERS CARPET CARE SERVICES"
We clean with peanuts.
It's been a blast long time since this board has had any real action

Move to the USA and keep more peanuts then. LOL
just kidding and razzin' ya Don.

Good stuff

Steve

Steve Dobson
ProFloor
Custom Cleaning Services

glad i'm not a numbers cruncher...ignorance is bliss.

i dunno about real action tho, nothing here-in is going to help or hinder any of our businesses.

thanx --- Derek.