Just came from a mini seminar where Tm, Cimex, Bonnet and Whittaker systems were discussed. Information given says that the carpet mills will NOT allow any kind of rotary action on carpet. Only approved machines are the Whittaker and similar styles with dual counter rotating brushs. This is for the Great White North country not sure if it applies to the southern provinces or not.
Any information regarding mills from down yonder?

Ken Martin

Ken,

Agreed, pretty much all of the mills have frowned upon rotary machines.
However NONE of the mills have frowned on planetary machines.

You guys might be interested to learn that a Cimex was sent down to Shaw a few of months ago for them to evaluate. They liked it

We just got a call a couple of weeks from a company that manages a few large shopping malls. They wanted more information about the Cimex machines. The mall company is presently installing Shaw carpeting throughout their malls. And they've been working with Shaw to plan the best maintenance approach for their carpet.

Now can you guess what Shaw recommended that they use to scrub their carpets. Yep you're right, Shaw recommended that they use Cimex machines. Cool!

The Cimex has never formerly been worked through the mills. But that will likely change as we move along, as I'm pretty sure that Truvox and the current importer of Cimex in the US is interested in getting the rest of the mills to appreciate the machine's planetary design. Cimex has already won some major points with the largest mill, Shaw. So it stands to reason that the other mills will also like the planetary design as they get an opportunity to evaluate the machines in the future.

Let's compare machine designs for a momnet...

PLANETARY
A planetary designed machine can not possibly damage a carpet because of the way the machine turns. The drive-deck is turning clockwise as the brushes are spinning counter-clockwise. So it's actually scrubbing in two directions at the same time (right and left).

This means that you can park a planetary machine on the carpet and leave it there running for several minutes without ever moving the machine. And the carpet will not suffer from what we could rightly refer to as carpet abuse.

CYLINDRICAL BRUSH MACHINES
A cylindrical brush machine is also relatively safe for carpet fiber. No damage is likely to occur with this design, and that's why the mills have already recommended cylindrical designs for their carpets. Whittaker has already done a good job of pushing their machine through the mills. As a general rule, the mills take no exception to any kind of cylindrical brush scrubbing action.

ROTARY & OSCILLATING MACHINES
Rotary machines can damage a carpet. Rotary machines spin in one direction, counter-clockwise. And if Rotary machines or OP machines are run improperly, the carpet can be damaged. If the carpet isn't lubricated with sufficient liquid, the carpet can be burned. This is especially a danger with olefin since it has a lower heat threshold. And cut pile carpets can be distorted if the machine is left running too long in one place without enough lubrication of the fiber.

Here's the bottom line. Any of the machine designs, if used properly, can be used safely. It is only the very small minority of inexperienced, untrained, or careless cleaners who have created problems for the rest of us. And unfortunately the mills are then forced to respond to these dummies. As warranty claims escalate they obviously have to recommend against methods that might potentially damage their goods. But in the real world, the mills know just as we know, that all of the methods can be successfully used with proper care.


Rick Gelinas





Rick Gelinas

I would agree that if you know what you are doing you can use any method and not hurt the fibers. We currently use TM, portables, rotary, Truvox multi-wash and cimex depending on what we the job requires to get the best results.
I am sonewhat concerned when the reps from the mills are saying absolutely no rotary action. They do not seem to differeniate rotary from planetary yet. I have explained the differences but as of yet have not heard back if they will condone or even allow the cimex. I currently use it at the risk of losing major accounts because I like the results and do not believe there is any concern of fiber damage. It would be easier on the mind if and when the mills give thier official okey dokey.
To my knowledge Shaw was the last mill that would still accept rotary to some degree. Hopefully the others will come around soon.

Ken Martin

I would tend to agree with Rick in that it is the minority hurting the majority so the mills have to rule towards the way that they are presently doing so.
But on the flip side, I have seen much more damage from HWE guys than VLM methods (OP, Bonnet, Cimex, etc.
It is def. the operator.
Unfortunately we will never conquer these problems as about 9 of 10 cleaners need a new line of work. They did 10 years ago, today and such will be the case 10 years from now. It is a 'blackeyed industry' in the eyes of the public, I really believe so, and those of us that do it to the max on a daily basis are always thus working 'uphill'. Unfortunately, I never see it being any other way.
Sorry to add a negative, yet realistic, flair to this thread. LOL

good luck

Steve

Steve Dobson
ProFloor
Custom Cleaning Services

It can be an uphill battle. I think we all agree that if done right all methods can be used with out problem. Many great companies used bonnet cleaning for "years" with out causing problems.

Then the mills started to say that they did not want bonnet cleaning done anymore.

So "holding their comments" they switched to what was recommended. When you are cleaning an account from 50,000 - 350,000 sq. ft and the manufacture says clean it this or that way. You tend to pay attention and change.

Rick and his manufacture are starting to make in-roads and will change minds. It is a long hard battle they must always overcome the objection of the Cimex "looking like a Rotary" machine. Good luck Rick as you keep going forward.

"Commercial Only"

it's an obvious fact that a small group of CC'ers who call themselves "Professionals" have damaged carpet. i dont think they ruined it for ALL the rest of us, but maybe the majority.?. who really knows. plenty of ppl still VLM with rotary and make plenty-o-money. i hope to join them in the coming year.

thanx --- Derek.

Those of us who have been around for many a year know this.
It is not the best cleaning system that wins with carpet mills, but the best "politician"

That is absolutely true Don!



Rick Gelinas

In my own "scientific" tests, I believe the Cimex is safer for carpets than machines like the GLS.
For scrubbing purposes the Cimex is better and safer. Rest easy guys. The mills will come around. Believe it.