What is the "speed" of cleaning with the Vento/HOS machines verses the Challenger and CCS. I have read that the CCS machines have larger orbits and are capable of higher cleaning production is this true? I like what I read about the smoothness of the Vento and Challenger with the Vento style machines winning out in looks. I just would like to hear from some who own one what they clean like. I really like the yellow ones with the on board spray system that is called the HOS.

Tracy, if you want to talk speed, you can eliminate all of the machines you mentioned. I have run every one of them and still own a Challenger. Jeff Brown brought a CCS machine to our shop to show us. I kid you not it almost shook the pictures off the walls and we have CGD over concrete. If you like changing pads every few minutes, and you just love to wash and dry pads, and you don't mind a "whole lotta shakin" going on, then get a OP machine. If you want speed, you want CRB machines, like the 20" and you want Cimex 19" either machine will clean 2000 to 3000 sq. ft. an hour. We sometimes run dual CRBs a 15" and a 20" and clean over 4000 sq. ft an hour. And guess what? No Stinkin Pads to clean. This is just MHO.

rambo... do you pad the heavier soiled areas or what?

Mark, to answer you question about padding after CRBing residential, I only do that about 1% of the time. Remember the carpet mills do Not recommend OPing carpet, they do recommend CRB. There is no chance of tip blooming w/ CRB and there sure is with OP. Rick has got a $1295 CRB on sale until the end of the month that is made by Windsor. One thing that was not mentioned in this post is how easy it is to use a CRB machine. I run my 15" and 20" with one hand, try that with OP. I clean all stairs (residential and commercial) with the CRB (handle removed) try that with OP. Reason for switching to CRB was; Mill recommended, Fast, No tip blooming, Ease of operation, No pile lifting, No post grooming, Weight 42Lbs., Two can be hooked together for 30" wide cleaning path, No pads to wear out or wash, a Tankless sprayer is available and adds only about 1lb of weight to the handle. I can run one of these all day long and not be tired at the end of the day. Residential customers love them, drying time less than 1 hr. I tell them we clean carpet from the bottom up, not top down (we are different) and no one in my service area uses it, so we have the marketing edge. I found out a long time ago, find out what your competition is doing, and you do the opposite. Check out my web site @ moodyscarpetcare.com

Thanks Rambo! But I want to know about OPs. I already have a Cimex for commercial, but ain't bringing that thing into a house. I am wanting to know which would be the best buy as far as speed, looks, and smoothness of an OP. Right now I am leaning towards the Vento/HOS style, but wanted to know about the speed of it since I read that the CCS were 40% faster. That is quite a bit if you are cleaning say 1500sqft of residential carpets.

My recommendation would be to listen to Rambo. From reading his posts, I’m sure he uses the CRB machines to do a lot of residential also. If you want to remove soil with pads on residential cut pile, I would suggest following the CRB with a rotary.

I haven’t had the Vento or Challenger, but I have had the CCS machine. While I can't comment on the marketing claim of 40% faster, I can agree that the vibration on glue down is severe. It’s better on padded carpet, but is still known to shake items of the wall. Plus if you read the posts on the CCS board you will find that they are always waiting for pads to be developed that will withstand the machine.

For me the next logical question is, what is that type of agitation doing to cut pile. When I had one, I saw fiber distortion several times. When I’ve communicated privately with OP cleaners, they acknowledge this. If damage is visible on occasion, how much damage occurs that isn’t readily visible. Cleaning involves more than soil removal. It is only considered successful if soil is removed without damaging the fiber or fabric.

I own a HOS and think it's a great machine... of corse i've never used another machine so everything i say doesn't realy apply to real life experiance with the other machines

i like that it has the brush/velcro combo pad driver as I feel that digs into the carpet better then a solid velcro drive plate can like that on the challenger (although CCS uses similar driver)

for looks it's not contest, the HOS is very nice looking with it's cast one peice frame... it's also very comfy to use, no holding the leaver, throw the on/off switch to ON and push the magic red button and off you go... the MTB bar ends while a bit cheesey are VERY comfortable, i never even use the big fatty motorcycle grips. when you want it off simply flip the switch...

they also have a spray system for the HOS that's pretty nice (although i'm saving for a CRB with a spray system on it).

the negs on the machine... the wheel wells should have been cut back further, to get up curbs and stairs you have to pull almost stright up... to much of an angle and it grinds the wells... the other neg is the upright locking meconism (SP?)... it works... but its a bit akward (somtimes have to kick it a few times to release) and have to make sure it's locked by kicking it closed before you drop the machine... although i think as I use the machine more it's braking itself in little by little... but it also limits the angle you can put the handel... from what I understand they are redesigning it or have done so, don't know if it can be used on the '06 machines though.

sure there is lots of thoughts on the CCS and challenger, just haven't read a lot on the HOS/Vento so figured i'd toss in my 2psi

I know a lot of folks use OP for residential with success but personally an OP machine scares me for residential carpet. I have used a 12” Oreck Orbiter for stairs and found that a lot of residential carpet can be damaged by the aggressive orbiting motion and the vibration would rattle the wall hangings around the area and dishes in the kitchen would rattle.

For residential carpet I use a 17” rotary machine with a “Dirt Napper” followed by Rick’s 19" Thin Encap Bonnets. I would love to have a CRB machine but don’t have one yet.


Richard Brooks
Hit The Spot
Exceeding Client Expectations

the thin encap bonnets are great with OP on cut resi pile carpets... so slick you don't need a glider, pre-scrubs real well and extracts some of the nasties... can go over it one last final time quickly with a cotton pad to REALY pick up the rest of the nasties... my prefered cleaning method now... the encap pads are much quicker to move the machine with and no worries about fiber damage...

the vibration is rarely an issue in FL, most all houses are built on foundation, no false floors... the one house I did do that had one it realy amplified the noise... but nothing moved
mark

Mr. Moody thanks for the info. The website lools great, clear concise. Like the spotting guide link. Before looking at your site I was wondering about berbers but my questions was answered. Looks really professional and confidence inspiring. Do you use Releasit products exclusively with your CRB's?

hope you got my mssg.

thanx --- Derek.

I keep seeing about a new crb but don't see it on the site yet? Is it coming, or am I missing it?

I have a vento, cimex, crb, ccs machines, and a few of the new op's with tanks from orbitec. The claim of things being shaken off walls is a bit extra. We do a LOT of commercial and a fair deal of residential. Since I am 6 foot 3 and 245 lbs the cimex and the op with tanks are not an issue for me to take up and down stairs; but I can see it being a heart ache for smaller individuals.

An op is my machine of choice because I can just hide the dirt with a floor pad or bonnet or actually extract with pads on the heavily soiled areas and improve their appearance. This aversion to changing pads is really not warranted because it takes all of 10 seconds to stop and put down a pad and the level of cleaning is deeper and more thorough. We wash with cold water Tide and a bit of bleach in cold water and they come out great with our front loading washing machine. That being said, we can make light to medium soiled carpet look just as good with a cimex as we can with an op. It's all about preference.

In my opinion the op's with tanks or the cimex is the best choice for production times when it comes to commercial.

ANY of the op's without tanks will do a great job on residential with a proper prespray and pad technique (knowing how to use damp and dry pads to complete the job). And the speed is less of an issue in homes because there are not wide open spaces to fly with the machine. Keep in mind that the machines with less oscillation ARE slower and the speed can be increased by using a thicker glide and sacrificing some depth of cleaning.

And if you know what you are doing tip blooming and fiber distortion are a non issue.

CRB machines are also great for doing residential (the lighter ones) since they are fairly easy to carry up and down stairs. They are also great at agitating traffic lanes before extraction.

Thanks! These are some very good responses. This is a great board full of great info!