| " Dad, where does the dirt go?"April 10 2007 at 8:42 PM | Jamie |
| My 16 year old all "A" honor roll son helped me clean over spring break last week. He wanted to sleep in and tried to convince me that he did not need to put half of his earnings in the bank.
Brad his best friend, another Honor Roll student, also help us clean all week.
After pushing "old yellow" around a few churches, medical buildings, and homes, he pulled the IPOD ear phones out of his ears, looked at me and asked "Dad where does the dirt go?"
Ahhh the moment I was waiting for had arrived. I was ready so, I began discussing encapsulation, detergents, polymers, soilease, drying times, no wick back, and my favorite, productuon rates!! Encapman would have sent me a free case of DS if he were present during my speach.
When I was finished and thought he was totaly impressed he said "that's all cool dad but where does the dirt go? does Releasit change the color or what." Hmmm I tried again but after putting a bit more convincing tone in my voice he and his honor roll friend still asked "where does the dirt go?"
He understands HWE and comented, "so dad, the dirt must be in the fibers, and the chemicals must hide it until we use the Butler System right? Is the carpet really clean with all that stuff in it?"
So fellow encap brothers, I need a little help from my friends.
Where does the dirt go?
Can we call the carpet clean before the final vac?
What happens to the soil?
Why can't we see it?
I need more technical information.
I believe it does vac out later but still my son wants to know:
"Dad where does the dirt go."
Jamie in Indiana
|
| Author | Reply | tracywalker
| Re: " Dad, where does the dirt go?" | April 10 2007, 8:59 PM |
Tell him it is a secret that only grown ups know. |
|
Harry
| Re: " Dad, where does the dirt go?" | April 10 2007, 9:17 PM |
Honestly I know about this problem and phenomenon.
We once scientifically approached this issue alongside chemists etc and came to the following resolution.
Just encaping a carpet with a few ounces of whatever cleaner is not really doing the trick - your son's right! There's no magical disappearance of dirt -- at best it crystallizes (which it should do) we use a crystal cleaner for that from Brush & Clean that works great. However everybody keeps saying that after the job is done it needs post vacuuming to collect the entrapped dirt (within those crystals)
Well folks that's all true to certain point and removal percentage cause northing's 100%! Fact is and our findings were that there's a lot left behind evenly distributed throughout the carpet so you won't see it. Thus having a wicking effect on some carpets if you use HWE systems -- You can eliminate that by using a dry cleaning compound on top of applying an encap cleaner that crystallizes to boost the cleaning job and actually have and be able to show a dirt carrier! what I mean by that is the dry compound entraps and collect dirt were it turns from a fresh yellow looking reappearance to a Grey or really black appearance (there being the dirt right in front of you, collected with that compound) You can show it to customers and YOUR SON that you are physically removing the dirt from point A (being the carpet to point (B) being the outside dumpster. That is a really good effect to show to customers and always works for us as an explanation.
Let me know if you want to know more about it --- there's a lot to say --- most people spray a few ounce of liquid cleaner and think they can clean/encap 2000 Sq ft. and all is good and gone! WRONG!!! The lab can proof it.
|
|
Rambo
| Re: " Dad, where does the dirt go?" | April 10 2007, 9:34 PM |
That is one of the unique things about a Host demo. You can actualy see the yellow Host compound change and turn grey and then almost black right before your eyes as you remove the soil from the carpet. |
| Alex
| Re: " Dad, where does the dirt go?" | April 11 2007, 12:43 AM |
Thats a logical question.And some good answers.
But i have a question thats been pricking at me. If the dirt is still there why is the carpet just as bright and a lot of times brighter then when extracted?
Even before post-vac.
I finished china resturant last night. I ask the manager what she think. She stated: "When we all came in this morning we all said "wow,look at the carpet its really clean". She also said that the carpet looks way better than the other guys who HWE'ed.
I myself have to admit that the carpet was shining when i finished. It is a dark brown with a pattern of light beige pok-a-dots through out. Those dots were ressurrected from the soil. I learned from this cleaning that i've been over cleaning. Brief example: I 'd make 3 dry passes when it was cleaned to the max in 2 dry passes.
I'm not knocking any method of cleaning i just know the responses i've been getting when i come in after those who cleaned HWE method.
DEREK, to answer your question, it turned out beautiful. I'm a hard worker by nature and to work hard and see amazing results is truly a joyful thing.I look foward to experiencing the HWE part of this. I love it!!!
BTW Jamie, show your son the soiled pads,that should satisfy his curiosity.
Thanks
Your Servant Alex |
|
CleanEvolve
| Re: " Dad, where does the dirt go?" | April 11 2007, 1:33 AM |
I'd like to see the "scientific" results. |
| CleanEvolve
| Harry...where's the scientific data? | April 11 2007, 8:42 PM |
Harry...you offered to post the "lab results" of your dry powder used in conjunction with encap...I'm real curious to see that.
Thanks |
| Harry
| Re: Harry...where's the scientific data? | April 12 2007, 2:19 AM |
I said that we once conducted a test - that was a few years ago with the manufacturer of the dry compound in Europe. They have their own labs and chemists there to show you and proof it. We never had anybody paid to do it independently -- i never wrote that I would post anything -- Sorry no paperwork I would be able to provide for lab rats...
|
| CleanEvolve
| You did say the lab could proove it | April 12 2007, 10:00 AM |
You did say the lab could proove it, so I assumed you had some data. Where is this information available? I have to say I am a bit sceptical due to the fact I've tried several powder systems and found them to perform poorly on dirty carpet (unless you use a pre-spray...which to me defeats the purpose)...they work well on semi-clean carpet, however the encap is MUCH superior on dirty carpets. I like to get the carpets clean and have found that there are low moisture systems like Releasit and Carbonated Solutions that outperform dry powder methods...no competition. This is not just my opinion, but my customers as well.
Not trying to be critical...just would like the facts. |
| Dion
| Its still there | April 11 2007, 12:45 AM |
You can tell your son that the dirt is still there. People seem to forget that post vacuuming is the extraction process. Just as a good prespray breaks down the sticky oils so that it can be easily extracted so does the encap process prepare the soil to be easily extracted via vacuuming.
Dion
A Little Cleaner |
|
Del Scrivner
| Try reversing the process | April 11 2007, 1:41 AM |
Correct it is still left in the carpet until the post vacuuming. So why can't you see it? Try thinking in reverse:
Can you see a single atom or cell? Of course not (at least with a human eye). What happens when you put millions of cells or atoms together? You get something- whether it's your hand, a car, a bottle of coke- whatever. The point is when you put enough cells or atoms together you get something visible.
Now just reverse the process. You have a spill or other sticky soil visible on the carpet. You use the Encap Clean DS applied and agitated by a Cimex. You are breaking the soil down into smaller parts that are encapsulated and then spread out. The stain is no longer together in one big form, and therefore not immediately visible. It is now in it's numerous smaller forms and ready to be removed (once dry) by post vacuuming.
Now I'm not a scientist and I'm not trying to say you are breaking soil down to a "molecular" level. So before some guys harp on me it's called an ~~~anology~~~.
Del Scrivner
Owner/Operator
Cowboy's Carpet Care |
|
Rick Gelinas
| The answer to the question: Where does the dirt go? | April 11 2007, 8:12 AM |
A good question from your son! I can see why he is an "A" student. The answer to his question is really not all that difficult. The obvious answer is that the soil is still there.
So why can't we see the soil right after the carpet gets scrubbed with Releasit? It's because the soil is simply no longer on the surface area of the fiber. The portion of the carpet that our eyes can see is only the surface area of the upper portion of the fiber. Keep in mind that carpet is constructed of fiber, and a lot of empty space between the fibers. The actual surface area of the carpet comprises only a small percentage of the total fiber content of the carpet, so there is plenty of empty space in the carpet beyond the visible surface. In fact there's nearly as much space between the fibers and between the tuft bundles as there is actual fiber.
One of the characteristics of Releasit's Crystalon3 polymer is that it draws soil into itself, attracting oily binder soils. As the carpet is cleaned, the soil gets displaced from the surface of the carpet, and the soil is drawn into the polymer. At this point in the cleaning the carpet begins to look clean, since the soil has now been displaced from the visible surface. As the carpet dries, the Crystalon3 polymer holds the soil in a crystalline suspension that can then be extracted during the routine post-vacuuming process. The Soileze fluoro-chemical in Releasit also aids the polymer to release from the fiber and helps to leave the carpet more soil resistant.
I hope this brief description will help you to answer your son's question. The answer to the question can be summed up with the sentence I posted above. .. "The actual surface area of the carpet comprises only a small percentage of the total fiber content of the carpet, so there is plenty of empty space in the carpet beyond the visible surface." That’s why we can no longer see the dirt even though it is still there.
Rick Gelinas
rick@excellent-supply.com
This message has been edited by cimex on Apr 11, 2007 2:01 PM
|
|
| Steve
| Re: The answer to the question: Where does the dirt go? | April 11 2007, 8:32 AM |
In true fatherhood fashion. " Son go ask your mother" |
|
Rick Gelinas
| Re: The answer to the question: Where does the dirt go? | April 11 2007, 8:55 AM |
Answer #2:
Tiny little pixies within the bubbles perform an alluring encap dance, persuading the dirt to disappear, never to be seen again.
Rick Gelinas
rick@excellent-supply.com
This message has been edited by cimex on Apr 11, 2007 11:19 AM
|
|
| Walton
| Re: The answer to the question: Where does the dirt go? | April 11 2007, 9:15 AM |
The dirt is in "suspended animation," until its vacuumed up. |
|
Del Scrivner
| It's... | April 11 2007, 6:49 PM |
Taking a dirt nap?
Del Scrivner
Owner/Operator
Cowboy's Carpet Care |
| Jamie
| Re: The answer to the question: Where does the dirt go? | April 11 2007, 6:54 PM |
Thank Rick. Great insight. I appreciate your continued support.
I love this encap business!
Jamie |
| Current Topic - " Dad, where does the dirt go?" |
| |
|
|