Are we or are we not supposed to use OP machines on carpets.

If not, why are we?
If so, then why the tension?
If "maybe" then which ones?

This back and forth is getting old. I bought some equipment to clean residential carpets. I was clear about my intentions and have been very impressed with the results.

But the "debate" has grown old. What is the bottom line?

Do I need Phd in carpet milling to decide if I can use equipment purchased for residential carpets?

For over 30 years Hot Water Extraction and in particular Truck Mount Hot Water Extraction or "Steam" cleaning has been the preferred method of carpet cleaning, it still is today.

People and companies have invested LOTS of money into this system. The system also works very well in the right circumstances and with the right operator.

OP is a relatively new way of cleaning carpets and it is slowly gaining some acceptance, however it has a long way to go.

People are very resistant to change and in particular people who have a lot of money tied up in certain equipment will defend their equipment and knock down yours.

Carpet cleaning is a service that is performed by the operator, the equipment is merely the tools we use to acomplish our job. My philosophy is that we are hired to clean the carpets for our customers. It's up to us to use the tools that best fit the job.

If you use OP, don't worry about what others say...worry about what your customers say. That being said, it's up to you to learn where OP is good to use and also where it's not and to have a system, or tool, for each particular circumstance.

In commercial it's not as big of a factor, as even most professional truck mount operators will use Cimex, CRB or OP if they have those tools available...it's the residential market where most of the concerns arise. Part of it is there's big money at stake...the manufacturers of the equipment and chemicals that produce truck mounts and portables are concerned about OP, CRB, Bonnet, Dry Compound...etc. They spend a lot of time and money lobbying the carpet mills and that's why the mills recommend their systems.

As your proclaimed "smart ass" of the bulletin boards, let me respond by saying that OP cleaning is not a new method. It's been around since the 70's. It's simply only now becoming well known simply because the champion of OP cleaning (John G.) found a forum to introduce his method and machine by way of the internet. So it's only started being talked about openly around 1999.

Having said that, I will now tell you that if you want to use OP cleaning in the residential environment feel free. Certainly nobody on this board, other than me, will tell you that is a mistake.

But, before you buy into this alternative lifestyle, look around you and look at what method the big dogs in this industry use in their companies. You don't see Howard Partridge, Ken Snow, Stanley Steemer or any other successful business owners in this industry that I am aware of using OP cleaning in the residential environment.

Even the king of vlm cleaning, Chem Dry, uses 175 rpm rotarys.

Nobody but the kool aid drinkers think having to explain piles of loose carpet fibers to their customers is anything other than an embarrassment.

First off, I never called anyone a smart ass. No name what so ever was attched to the prior post about OP cleaning. So Marty and you saying the remark was ment for you?

LOL,

There was no metion in any past thread about "piles" of carpet fiber. You make it sound so dramatic.

I have a picture in my mind of a carpet cleaner standing next to his op machine with the customer near by both looking at a 3 ft high pile of carpet fiber in the living room, saying "don't worry Mrs. Smith this happens all the time".

You know it's a fact Marty that no matter if you use a TM or a porti you get fibers in the basket/filter.

OP cleaning works and works well if you know what you are doing. Does it work on all carpets like frieze (shag),some say yes some say no. I would never use it on that style carpet. Thats why there are CBM's, portable HWE and TM's. Have I needed a porti or a TM yet, nope. Does that mean I will not be buying a porti or a tm in the years ahead. No, I plan to by at least a good porti.

More tools the better.

Bottom line OP works and a lot of TM guys are pi**ed that it does. My customers are happy and prefer it to HWE or as they say, steam.

If I recall years ago when Chem Dry came lookin for me, they were using a, as the rep put it "cutting edge" system.
It was a floor machine with a towel under it. Some franchises still use this system and Chem Dry as a whole is a sucesful company, arn't they?

And as for the op guys, John G, Steve Smith and a few others, I think they are all very sucessful at what they do, and if I am a kooaid drinker, make mine cherry.

Oh no ... certainly you weren't referring to me, of course not. How silly of me to think so.

LOL, But I never said your name.

Aris said it all: "Carpet cleaning is a service that is performed by the operator, the equipment is merely the tools we use to acomplish our job."

don't listen to ppl that preach method. learn your tool and clean carpet.

all methods clean carpet.

repeat.

learn your method and clean carpet.

let those that like to hear themselves talk and think it is their way or the highway chatter on.

ppl that poo-poo on splash-N-dash or VLM like to hear themselves chatter on the 'net.

in the end, both users get paid and pay their bills.

so if you want to be "popular" on the 'net, then give into the chatterers.

repeat: learn your method, clean carpet and you will pay your bills.

it ain't rocket science tho the chatterers like to make it sound that only their way is the best because "they've learned the hard way..."

less chatter more splatter --- Derek.

I agree. As I have said in another thread here, just a minute ago, I really don't think that there is a single method that works alone.

We all, as professional cleaners, need more than one tool in our box.

I agree with you Marty. Tools are good! You make the argument that we're single-minded about cleannig here, however we use and sell all methods.

Excellent Supply sells Cimex machines, Vento OP machines, Challenger OP machines, Koblenz rotary machines, Kleenrite hot water extraction machines, Windsor hot water extraction machines, Sprint cylindrical brush machines, Windsor cylindrical brush machines, Windsor self-contained machines, a massive propane powered carpet scrubber, and last but not least --- hi-flow Steamin Demon machines.

All of the bases are covered








Rick Gelinas
rick@excellent-supply.com

Thank you JOhn ...er... I mean Rick. LOL!

Now that is funny Marty, BTW, good post form you.

Rick,

You won't be a "real supplier" though until you sell truck mounts.

I really don't need no stinkin' REAL SUPPLIER to make a handsome living.

Down under, there has been a saying for longer than I can remember, especially since I acquired KRAFT.





A poor tradesman always blames his tools.




Be thankful for the tools that you have at your disposal, also the solutions that you find that compliments your work with such tools.

With mistakes comes learning, these forums and the participants have helped me avoid a lot of mistakes and learn more.

The tools I buy, have been pulled to pieces by many on all the forums, this is good,I can learn from them cheaply.

I also listen a lot to Marty & Jimmy, there is often a hidden message in their words.

For me, I love toys, finding the right toys has been a costly exercise, but each toy has it's place, especially when the years start to catch up on you & you look for easier ways of making more dollars with less pain on both your body & the hip pocket nerve.

Now to hit a raw nerve.

With all these new fangled, fire breathin', super suckers, that'll blast the stains off'n a carpet at 600 paces,do we really need all that to do a good job on carpet that the consumer is happy with, at an affordable price?

My antique liquid ring vacuum truck mount, keeps getting me plenty of work, when I am competing against other truck mounts.

Rick, stay "UN-REAL" as a supplier, we like it that way

Cheers,

Shorty.




PS ::: I half promise the next post will be short-erer.

PPS ::: How much damage is done to carpets by op's, etc; that is not done by an average teenage family??

Shorty,

I know one aspect of the carpet cleaning business well. And that's commercial. That's why I've dedicated Excellent Supply to everything pertaining to commercial carpet care.

IMHO a truckmount is one of the last pieces of equipment that a serious commercial carpet cleaner would ever want to be encumbered with, for serious day-in day-out commercial cleaning. So I'll keep on doing as you suggested selling "real" tools that are truly useful to commercial carpet cleaners. And of course, Marty will probably find reason to object. I wouldn't expect it any other way. LOL All is well in the world. He kind of reminds me of another character from Alabama who was famous for saying "stupid is as stupid does".






Rick Gelinas
rick@excellent-supply.com

I couldn't agree more that there is no reason to have a TM for commercial. I've had several TMs since 1993 and none of them has made me nearly as much money as my Cimexs. However, they sure have given me a ton of headaches.

I bought a Vento from Rick a few weeks ago for residential. We love it. The TM is getting used less and less. Some seem to feel that the only "real" way to clean carpet is with a TM. I don't plan on ever buying another one. So I guess I won't need a "real supplier" either. I guess I'll never be a Stanley Steemer.

My guys would mutiny if they had to use a tm on commercial..........lol

Cimex has changed everything for us regarding comm'l.
Carpet stays cleaner longer,customers happy,no more
wickbacks........ez in,ez out.........no hoses up 3 flights
of stairs. We use all methods where appropriate.

The word "commercial" is where we agree. If I were only cleaning commercial, then a TM probably would be my last choice. You really shouldn't expect me to always disagree with you as a matter of choice. It's like my Momma used to say, "life is like a box of cherries. You never know what you're gonna get."

hiyas Mike, good to see you posting.

hope biz is booming for you down-state --- Derek.