Just finished a weekend job (carpet cleaning and waxing) and ran into a horrible problem: the carpet in the areas I used the cimex bubbled. The front lobby of the office was the most horrible of the results (I suppose when it rains it pours). I noticed the problem soon enough that I didn't get too far into the building, so my damage was at least semi contained. It is my understanding that they are going to have to stretch the carpet and reglue it back down.

Anyone else ran into problems of this nature using the cimex with the fiberplus pads and Releasit. I am a bit timid about using my Cimex now.

P.S. I do not use my Cimex for removing old wax so the problem is not stripper getting on the carpet.

Don't be quick to assume you did anything to cause this. Years ago when I had my first TM we steam cleaned some hallways in a new rehab hospital. I got a call a few days later saying that the seams had split all over the facility. I thought I was finished.

When the carpet was inspected it was determined that the adhesive was not applied heavily enough. You could just lift the carpet up. It wasn't water that loosened the carpet. The carpets were dry in 4-6 hours indicating they were not overwet. It was the lift of the vacuum wand that pulled it loose. That's how poorly it was adhered.

Some carpets will expand when they get damp. If a glue down is loose and it expands it will ripple. Were the carpets dry in a reasonable time? If so, you didn't overwet them. I seriously doubt that you did anything to cause them to come loose.

I have never had a case where the carpets didn't lay back down when they are totally dry. Whatever you do, don't indicate you are responsible. It is likely an installation problem or at lease a pre-existing condition. You may need tdo be able to explain it though. It would have been better if you determined this in a preinspection. but realistically we don't always check for that type problem.

The carpet was bone dry in less then 3 hours. How would I determine if the carpet is going to bubble before I get to work? I didn't notice any bubbling of the carpet before I started my carpet work.

P.S. My uncle claims to have seen some bubbling in the lobby, but it must have been very minor for me to miss it. Should I dodge jobs with any bubbling in the carpet at the start?

Let's be perfectly clear about this - it is HIGHLY IMPROBABLE that you did ANYTHING wrong! Unless you are a moron - and I'll assume that you are NOT, there is no possible way you could have ever introduced enough moisture to damage a CGD carpet with encap. Not a chance.

So then where did the problem come from? I would say with near certainty that the carpet was a "unitary backed" carpet. At the very least it was a poorly installed CGD carpet.

What is a unitary backed carpet? This is a carpet that is manufactured without a secondary backing applied when it's made. These carpets are intended to be GLUED TO THE FLOOR. The gluing to the floor provides the needed structural stability to the carpet, since it has no structural stability of its own. It must be glued down properly (without a secondary backing the carpet is like a bowl of Jello).

I have seen this before, in a couple of carpets we have serviced. In each case, any amount of moisture would make the carpets ripple and wave all over the place. There was no way they could be cleaned (even with VLM) methods without getting them to produce ripples that were horrendous. These carpets looked like a skateboard park after we cleaned it. When you see a carpet do this it is scary as heck! The good news is that they would settle back down and look a little better after a couple of days, but they were never 100% perfect.

But this is NOT your problem. Let me repeat, not your problem. If the carpet was glued down as it should have been, this could not have happened. Remember all CGD carpet is designed to be glued down (and especially if it's a unitary backed carpet). That means it's IMPOSSIBLE for a properly glued down carpet to ripple. This is an installation failure. Now it may be difficult to get your client to appreciate that, but it's the truth. And it's up to you to educate your customer about the conditions.

If I can help you in any way please feel free to call me tomorrow. I'll be happy to explain this to you in more detail.

Wishing you success!









Rick Gelinas
rick@excellent-supply.com

I agree with the above posts. Installation problem. Not yours.
I clean a carpet for a customer every couple of months and since day one that carpet would curl up and buckle like you wouldn't believe. Common sense---if it's glued to the floor correctly it can't buckle. And Releasit ain't going to disolve the glue.

maybe i'm green, but isn't bubbling common on poorly installed CGD - and is fixed by allowing it to dry completely and then it lays back down??

i've seen this several times and i know it has been commented on by many here in the past.

so the question is, did you see this carpet when it was COMPLETELY dry? if so and it was still "bubbled", then my hypothesis is wrong in your case.


thanx --- Derek.

I too, like many above have had this happen before. It is nothing you did wrong. It is an installation problem. The first time it happened to me was in a large facility that prints travelers checks, money orders, etc. Real high security. They called the carpet manufacturer because it was only a year old and they sent out their inspector who said that the wrong kind of glue was used and there was not any seam sealing glue used. Apparently the carpet store that sold them the carpet just used whatever they had on the shelf which was not the proper glue.

Hopefully the person in charge at your facility is rational and you will be able to explain this problem to them.

Kevin Pearson

But do you think the acct is going to want to hear that.

Now its going to come down to an ins claim from them, maybe a lawsuit. Then an IICRC inspection. In which case you better hope the inspector is a good one.

In there mind its going to be you were the last one to clean the carpet. Do you think you will ever work for them again?

Its easy for us to say he did nothing wrong, but are they going to see it that way?


Good luck, I wish the best on this.

Whether the client likes it or doesn't like it makes no difference at all - the problem is not the fault of the cleaner. It is an installation issue, and that will be easy to prove. And if any possible lawsuit comes out of this, it WILL land squarely on the shoulders of the installer. I suspect that even an Alabama judge would be able to see it clearly.








Rick Gelinas
rick@excellent-supply.com

LOL ... that might be stretching it a bit, pardon the pun.

I've had this happen to me before as well. i was really worried about it as it's my largest account. It all laid down flat when dry and I still have the account, so it's a non-issue.

Did you see the carpet once it was dry???

I have seen this happen before myself. It is pretty much an installation and or preexisting problem. I have seen where moisture over time compromises the glue/mastic on concrete slabs, with carpet glued down. Its not your problem, the moisture vapor passes through the concrete , the carpeting and glue and basically dissolves it. If the carpet is glued down properly , it s almost impossible for using the low moisture system of the Cimex to affect the carpeting and glue.
Have a competent installer stretch and reglue the carpeting. If it's on concrete, have them do a moisture test first, as they might need a vapor barrier put down first.
Craig

I had a long talk with the property manager who was in agreement that the fault rest with the installers. When he got to the building, bright and early, this morning most of the carpet had flattened out already.

Thanks for the replies. My sanity is now in check. I have considered tacking on an additional cost for the month of my life I lost when I opened the door and saw the carpet look like rolling hills.

Invoice

1 Month of life expectancy lost - $800
........
........


P.S. The carpet was dry to the touch, and still bubbled, when I left the job site. I suppose a little moisture can cause it to retain it's bubble appearance.

I guess most of us have seen this problem during our time cleaning carpets.

On a different tack, this brought a smile to me when I remembered an old video I saw many years ago.

This link will also remind a few I guess..........

http://www.snopes.com/critters/mishaps/carpet.asp


Interesting to note, this myth actually first surfaced back in 1964 in a Readers Digest magazine.

Just about the time I got out of my carpet laying venture

Cheers,

Shorty.

I've seen the light, and changed my wicked ways.
www.get.shorty.com.au

Oops, my server is slower than my one finger today.

I posted twice

Cheers,

Shorty.

I've seen the light, and changed my wicked ways.
www.get.shorty.com.au

As a Senior Carpet Inspector, I have looked at several of these.
In some cases like this one the "bubbles" will appear without any cleaning at all. Cases like these are almost always the result of some "hack" installation crew's slap happy attitude. As I recall Marty used to be an Installer and can probably relate.



In this next picture you will see what the problem was which no doubt Shorty and Marty will spot immediately but if they don't I'll post again later with the answers.

Where is the seaming tape?

I tohought it was cuz they glued it with the backing face up????

Make you own luck,

Del Scrivner
Owner/Operator
Cowboy's Carpet Care

I pulled back an edge of the carpet to take this pic.

By counting the number of rows of adhesive you can tell what trowel was used. By looking at the shape of the rows of adhesive you can tell if the carpet was rolled. By looking at the exposed carpet backing you can tell how much transfer of adhesive there was.

I just finished with my follow up visit, and the level of the carpet looked exactly how it did when we first started the job. When me and my uncle saw the bubbling we switched to using our little HWE unit; which hasn't given us great results in the past. We used releasit in the unit and the results turned out very nice! Releasit is such wonderful juice.