VLM is so cool.

i've never had the ability to get a TM for various reasons. so i started with a Portable for the 1st 6 years of my part-time CC'ing business. results were less than average, with an under-powered Bain. i'll def take some of the blame, as i was green even when i bought my Recoil 3 after the Bain. using a Host scrubber to pre-scrub before extracting with the Recoil 3 was the best results i got with HWE. by then my right arm had developed tennis elbow due to my wand use...a teflon glide helped with recovering dirty water, but didnt stop the Tennis Elbow. thus, a change was needed, or i would have to remain a toilet cleaner for life.

took a chance and "gambled" on a Cimex. that was the "turn" in our CC'ing business. a year later we invested in a Challenger for residential, as i was not happy with the results of the Cimex on plush resi accounts.

a year later we went CC'ing full-time. i was getting results i could believe in! i could finally stand behind my services and sell them with confidence.

if i had ever been in a situation to keep a TM i may have ended up somewhere else. but i am very happy i couldn't keep one! this forum has helped me the most, as has Mike's and ICS and especially the old VLM forum (what a loss of resources for all you newer members here...the old VLM forum held a vast wealth of free information imo...and you could speak with some cool ppl like Mark Stanley and Barry Schrock who i never see anymore).

so how has VLM affected, or even transformed, your business?


tx --- Derek.

Dereck -
Your history sound similar to mine. Portables love my Recoil but needed more production and was losing $ on commercial. I will say my best protable is my Recoil XPS. Awsome machine.Anyway purchase a Cimex then Hos then Orbot. 99% of my work is now VLM, customers love it, commercial love it and I'm finally making money commercially without surrendering results. I'm sure everyone will not agree but to each their own do waht makes you comfortable and worry about your own business. Dereck- have you been on uscleanersnetwork forum very VLM.

Well unlike the guys above I do own a truck mount, a Butler. I never believed for one moment that a Cimex could clean anywhere as good as my TM. Rick finally convinced me to try it on a 10 day trial. The first job I had lined up for it was a room in a church where three coffee pots set. All the coffee came out with just the Releasit Encap-Clean (not DS) and the Cimex. At that time there was no DS. I was sold then.

We now own two Cimex's and use one in our rug pit to scrub rugs while under water and then we occasionally take it to bigger jobs to get them done faster.

Before the Cimex it would take us 10 hours to clean 10,000 sf of commercial carpet. Now we take two guys and it only takes 2.5 hours.

Looking back on the whole situation, I sure am glad I listened to Rick G. and tried out that first Cimex.

Kevin Pearson

Like Kevin I too also have a truckmount (diesel fired El Diablo) a real firebreather. We are 60/40 residential/commercial business. Truckmount for all residential, VLM for all commercial. I don't see how you could be competitive today in commercial w/o VLM. We charge less today in commercial than we did 21 years ago, the market demands it. We use CX20, CX17, CX15, CRB, 175/300rpm, Makita 9227C and a few others for VLM. It has transformed our business by allowing us to be competitive, it's easy to use, it's fast, it's in-expensive (compared to a truckmount) I tried for over 4 years to be 100% VLM after owning 7 truckmounts. Over that period I lost 40% of my residential customer base because I was using a system that was inferior in my customers mind. They won't come right out and tell you in the beginning, but the next time they need a cleanning.....well you know. We are now gaining back most of those customers as we are letting them know that we are now CRI Approved Service Providers.

We started out with small extractor moved up to the bigger Century potable. When I moved up to a Steamin Demon with a CBM the results were so much better. We purchased a Butler to speed up production times or so we thought, after the Bulter went we got a Recoil 3 used the hose reels and got a heater.

Around that time I heard about encaps but though ya rite no way.I happened to meet Rick at Shaw's and seen how genuine he was so I gave the chemicals at tr using my 20 inch 300 speed rotary.This help me out so much in my commercial accounts we wet after more and more. As you know we recently purchased an Orbot, this has helped my residential side tremendously as well as commercial being even more fun. Residential clients are loving how fluffy the carpeting looks and feels, naturally the fast dry times are a big factor.

The biggest thing is has done for us is the ability to offer the client the best possible tool for the situation.

David

Speaking of transform, the Orbot looks like something straight out of the Transformers movie!

For myself, VLM with the Cimex has given me the ability to clean a large commercial job while staying very profitable, offering competitive rates, and providing unmatched results.

I'm just getting started with the Orbot in residential, but already it's been amazing. Especially with the alternative to lugging a ton of equipment up high rises with HWE, the Orbot is so much more compact. Customers always love dry times as well. That is always the number one problem with carpet cleaning here. The carpet looks alive again when the Orbot is done with it.

What happen Ray, a few years back all you did brag that you would never have another TM. You can out clean any TM using your CRBM system. You used a CRBM to do your resi work and you praised it up and down left and right. In the one phone call I had with you, you praised it the whole time. Talked me out of getting a TM (said you would never have another). You braged your customers love the way you do your CRBM method. You had the Rambo girls going into homes and being able to use the system. Praise, praise, praise thats all we heard here.

Now you go a do a 360. Whats up with that?

I think he may already answered that for you in his previous post.The line that mentions the "perceived inferior "system or something along those lines or maybe he has his brother doing all of the grunt work!
Patrick

I had several Mill Reps wanting me to help them solve some problems, but they would only allow HWE. We wanted to be CRI Approved Service Providers (and are now) but they required HWE. We are wanting to do more service work for the Mills,like Tandus. John Garger is in charge of all warranty and he requires HWE. BTW John and I are both Lifetime Members of LMCCA and we both agree there is a place for Low Moisture Cleaning. I still have the Rambo-etts cleaning in commercial because the equipment is soooo easy to use. We do have a couple of Day Care Centers that require HWE. We have a full tool box now and can handle everything incl. tile and grout and WD. I use some form of VLM almost every day and have for over 20 years, starting with Host. What I learned with VLM was that I still need to learn what it takes to run a profitable business. It's all about "change" and learning to adapt to change. My business is quite different today that it was even three short years ago. Hey, I'm still learning.

I started out with a Rotovac business package: The Rotovac, a Diamondback extractor, a carpet rake, two wands (one for upholstery) and some chemicals. It's a nice package and includes good equipment and chemicals, including CTI. I still use the Rotovac and the extractor all the time. I discovered VLM when I tried a free sample of CTI Brush n Bonnet on my own carpet. It was amazing! The stains that I was continually fighting with HWE and various spot removers disappeared forever. Not long after that I discovered Releasit and purchased a Cimex. That's when I started going after commercial work. I also picked-up a 15" rotary and learned how to operate it. I started using the VLM system for resi work and added a Sprint CRB. The 15" rotary is good for resi because it's light(er). At one point I remember telling my daughter that I might sell the Rotovac...but she protested and made me feel guilty. Lately, I have been, like Rambo, going back to HWE for resi work. The Rotovac does such a good job...My daughter was right! It's just too much work with a portable and too many wires. Lately, I have been doing more commercial work. I have lots of confidence in the commercial arena, but think my system is lacking for resi, not based on results, but on economics.

As i mentioned before, I always wanted to be a carpet cleaner since i was a little boy, as i was fascinated by the extraction process some 30 years ago. I never got my chance to clean carpet cause as time went on I learned that I was good with my hands and took interest in other things.

One day three years ago my friend asked me to help him to go on a job to clean a assymbly hall carpet. But little did i know it was low moisture. He had a 15" rotory and some release it ds. He treated that releasit as if it was worth a million dollars telling me: "be careful you don't waste any of this stuff. This stuff is like gold".

At any rate I was truly amazed at the results. I thought, this is it. So I asked my friend to just get me some of that detergent and that he don't have to tell me his source,but just let me buy some from him. He saw my zeal and enthusiasm about it and end up giving me his rotary and white pads bought from the jan store and i was in business from then on. Oh and he gave up his source on the detergent. He told me about Cimex and i made my goal to get one.

One year later Ricks 90-day same as cash payment plan put me in the game. (Cimex/Release-it) So VLM didn't transform my business, IT PUT ME IN BUSINESS. Whats really amazing is I didn't have to go through a bunch of no-good chemicals wasting time money ect. before getting the best in the industry. Carpet cleaning is now my livelyhood and its totally VLM. I can't see it any other way.

Thanks
Your Servant Alex

Cultivate the "OCCD" you had at first for the industry!

I noticed Ray stated he lost 40% of his residential customers
going VLM. This implies to me that he already had these clients, they were trained by him HWE was the way to go then he switched on them in mid stream. It is likely Ray could not sell the new method or did not try to sell it and just did the jobs with out retraining.

When clients have asked me for years about different methods my comments have always been the same. I can clean your carpet with a tooth brush in it would look beautiful, it would take me a long time but it would look great, It is the tech not the method that makes the job come out the way it should.

Since we have always scrubbed the carpet with either a CBM rotary or a turbo vac even when using a TM my clients are used to seeing different machines in the home. Now that we have the Orbot we try to use it as much as possible even in homes our new clients love the machine due to the fast drying times and no hoses going out of the house (no heat loss or pets trying to get out.) I believe that is why they also like the Demon.
Present clients know if they are unhappy with the look or feel of the job VLMed I will come rite out re clean the job using HWE. So far no takers, with one thinking she should have tried the VLM instead of HWE.

Since I am a owner operator at this point this more then likely has a lot to do with it, that and server have told the horrors of a few companies leaving the carpet wet for days.

We just stated running ads for VLM in a few areas, time will tell. having lots of toys keeps the options wide open

If anybody could re-educate or re-sell a client into the VLM system, it would be Ray. He did it when we went from HOST to TM (Bane) quite successfully.

And I challange you on that toothbrush can get it cleaned as well. If I remember correctly, it was started by somebody selling cheap equipment to clean with. Fact, with a properly set-up TM, prespray, rinse, and tools (hi-heat, hi-flow, kunkle valve, greenhorn wand, etc.) you couldn't out clean me with a toothbrush, no way, no how. And no, we don't need the crb, orbot, roto-tools. We achieve dry to the touch times in the 1-2 hour range. Earlier this week, we cleaned a cheer gym floor (10 strips of the spongy fiber), then 1 office and 1 set of stairs along with a 5ftx70ft strip of finished concrete. By the time we packed up, the complete gym floor was dry to the touch and clean.

I am sure Rick will agree, VLM is mainly for commerical maint. not for deep cleaning in residential.

Thats not what Ray preached many many posts ago.

He was hell bent on the vlm way and when I say vlm I dont mean a tm.

He made many post about how the Rambo girls could do a home in no time at all and how the customer was pleased as punch.

He sold many of us on it, so much so I went and purchesed a CRBM from Rick. He even went into a few good debates over it with other members of this fourm.

He told me in our one phone call when I asked him "what if a customer says your not extracting as you clean" Ray said "you tell them you are extracting into the pad or when the customer does a post vac".

I guess now he would get on the fourm and say no op machine or other lm way of cleaning could compete with a TM in a resi cleaning.

I guess in a few months Ray will come back on to say he will never own another TM.

Ray, I hate to say it but from now on I think I will take your post only at face value. It seems like your wisdom changes like the weather.

And my customers are very happy with my lm way of carpet cleaning.

No disrespect is ment by this post.

I've been posting on these boards for quite some time. I have learned some good things as a result of being "here", and I have been taken a few times, as well. One thing I can tell you for SURE is that you can only believe a fraction of what you read here. Why grown men will lie about a method or product is beyond me to understand.

All I can tell you is the truth as it has revealed to me through experience.

You can clean almost every commercial carpet you are called to clean with VLM, but you can clean only a small percentage of residential carpets with vlm. The exact opposite is true of HWE.

It takes some folks a long time to realize that, and some refuse to admit it.

Some folks waffle around the issue for years and NEVER reach a honest conclusion.

And, you really can't argue with someone who will lie even to themselves.

Your perception of HWE/VLM is right on target. It took me a few years to figure it out.

"He sold many of us on it"

he didn't sell me.

i bought an under-powered Bain and I did a suck-butt job with it for 5 years. i didn't blame the guy who sold it to me and i never will.

i just ordered an Orbot. if it sux i won't be blaming anyone that "sold me on it", i will take the loss....that's how i roll.


no offense meant to any1, but we're all adults and we are all on the INTERNET...none of us truly know each other. i hope we all keep that in mind.

buyer beware...use your own power of reason.

--- Derek.

I have to agree with you Marty. lightly soiled carpets in a residential setting is best for VLM cleaning.

The reason we will go over with the Orbot or a rotary after HWE is simple it give the client piece of mind that their carpet with not be left wet as others have done.

We have been very lucky lately most of our residential jobs have had very little soiling, next week will be the just the opposite and the I'll be pulling hoses all week.

We all must be contently learning. BTW if you want the straight scoop on a product give Marty a call.

Now I know that I gave Ray a hard time and lord knows he is a big enough man to take it.

But I have seen some real dirty carpets come clean using a challenger or other type of pad machine.

Lord knows John G would take any of us to task on the subject.

And I know, I do plan on gettiing a porti in the next few years(more for t&g jobs), but there has not been a job I have walked away from yet (resi) that I have not been able to make the customer happy using my challenger, vento or now 17" roto.

I now sell clean carpet, before I sold the method and thats where I ran into problems.

In the very early 90's I learned all 5 of the recognized cleaning methods while in the employment of a international franchise(yellow) and to this day am very thankful for those experiences.Why? because even then I realized that you have to know which tools work best for the situation at hand.

When we started our business,we knew that our toolbox would soon show us which tools were grabbed most often,but not always by our choice or want.

We knew that in order to earn that client's initial and repeat business(loyalty) we would have to use a method that we might perceive as inferior or simply did not favor.You have to be willing to evolve...constantly,in order to achieve your goals.

What Ray Moody did was to simply "change his glasses" or even easier...take them off ,look around and realize that they just needed cleaning.He has done nothing short of (no pun intended...well maybe a little!) but be that bend-able tree in the wind.

Even before when you valued his preachings on vlm in previous posts,look for the nuggets in his newer posts.

Patrick