Ok Rick, I know you have had the Cimex independently tested.. but how can you argue this warranty issue:

http://www.tandus.com/pdf/maintenance/RotaryProhibitionStatement.pdf

Explicitly labels the cimex.

All rotary devices then would include Rotovac, RX20 and several others. As well as Drieaz air movers and air movers in general. Makes you wonder how they would like you to address wicking issues. Looks like Chem Dry has a problem as well don't they use a rotary doesn't Home Depot sell this style carpet and knowingly promote Chem Dry? Makes you think doesn't it?

Yeah thats all good and well but I believe the same lab that did their testing is also the same lab that tested releaseit and approved it.There was a cimex sitting in the test lab when I took a commercial carpet course a few months ago.
Patrick

What problems have you had with Release It, I've used it for a couple years now without incident and many satisfied customers.

IT'S ALL ABOUT $$$$$$$

It's all about voiding the warranty. Why don't you call John Garger direct at Tandus. BTW he is also on the Board of Directors for LMCCA. He is an old friend and a delight to talk to. Another thing, you can have a product(like Releasit) approved for cleaning and not have the machine you want to use to apply it that is approved. Think about it.

Check the date...December 2007

Mike

That was 11 months ago and I am sure their policy is the same. Check with John Garger.

I can't speak on what factors went into the conclusion they came to. However it can be said that their position is not in agreement with the findings of Professional Testing Laboratory. PTL is "the authority" when it comes to standardized testing in Dalton Georgia.

Good science must reach its conclusion through recognized testing standards. And when "industry recognized" testing was performed at PTL, the Cimex passed. The Cimex performed not 1 pass, not 2 passes, not 3 passes, but 22 PASSES on a commercial cut pile carpet. The testing was performed in a controlled laboratory setting with Releasit and FiberPlus pads.

http://excellent-supply.com/cimex_releasit_test_results.pdf

The reason the Cimex is safer for a carpet than a traditional rotary machine is because it's not just spinning in one direction. Instead, it turns in both directions at the same time. So while a rotary machine may be damaging a carpet as it spins in one direction, by comparison the Cimex machine would be undoing any possible damage as it simultaneously turns back in the reverse direction. The effect of this can be seen with this animated image...



Tandus makes a superb product. I honestly believe they make some of the best textile floor coverings in the industry. They manufacture their floor coverings with 6.6 nylon that is fused to a durable vinyl backing. They also provide an incredible warranty to their customers. Tandus is clearly a company that stands for quality from top to bottom. So for them to conclude that all rotary style machines (especially a safe one like the Cimex) could damage their product is kind of puzzling.

With all the quality that goes into a Tandus product, a person might reasonably ask such questions as - How could a good quality Tandus carpet fail to hold up to a Cimex, when a considerably less durable carpet passed the test at PTL? If a Tandus carpet is honestly going to "fail" with a properly-used Cimex, how is it going to endure foot traffic and vacuuming? And if Tandus carpet is so easily damaged, will it be able to maintain a reasonable degree of longevity in a commercial installation? Of course, the logical response to these questions is in the affirmative - Tandus carpet is an extremely durable product that will clearly hold up to years of commercial wear and repeated cleanings. Hence the question remains, why is there an objection to the Cimex?

Well I'm not sure why they're concerned that a properly operated Cimex machine would hurt their carpet. Real world cleaning results performed on countless commercial carpets all over the world, along with the testing conducted at PTL, indicates that the Cimex/Releasit/FiberPlus system is safe for commercial carpet. Yet in the end, it is ultimately up to Tandus to set their own policies as to what they recommend. They are good people with a great product, and I fully respect their position to recommend, or not recommend, whatever method(s) they choose.







Rick Gelinas

I thinks it's time they reevaluate their stubborn stance of the care of their product.

I wonder if they have any studies that lead to their blanket statement? I'm almost certain that they've never tested the Cimex/Releasit/Fiberplus combo on their carpet. They just assumed that that a floor machine is a floor machine.

I have yet to have a client bring up a warranty concern, and the fact of the matter is that 99.9% of them have no idea about their warranty. Most of them are leasing premises and they just want the carpets clean.

Bottom line is that the customers I have would be really unhappy if I told them I couldn't use the method that's been getting their carpets so clean, and staying clean.

I have yet, in 18 years, run into anyone who's had a warranty claim and my understanding is that generally if there's not a problem that's noticed shortly after installation, that carpet is pretty much there to stay.

First off many large complexes do know about their warranty, but it depends on the owner the property management company and the type of agency.


I'll give you an instance, some manufacturers at one time would not honor a warrant unless the carpets were maintained by their contract services. If a union facility had the install there was specific criteria to maintain the warranty.

Once such facility had a huge claim because the carpet uglied out
with in warranty period and it was maintained in accordance to the manufactures specs.Unless the manufacturer could solve this problem they were on the hook for lots or money.

Now on the other side of the coin I have seen such contract services using non approved methods to maintain carpets in order to keep them looking good.

Go figure.


David

PS always follow the MONEY CHAIN you will usually find all the reasons for a stance

So did they end up replacing the carpet?

I would be surprised if they did. I have a brother who was in commercial contract flooring sales for many years, his experience tells me that unless the carpet has a warranty claim that's noticed at or shortly after installation, the chances of that carpet ever being replaced under a warranty claim are almost nil.

I'm not saying there aren't claims, from the manufacturers view point there are probably too many, however with all the commercial carpet that's out there, there just aren't that many. And the ones that do get replaced, are either replaced right away due to a milling problem or an instalation problem, after that it just doesn't happen a lot.

I suppose we should be aware of it, but my clients really don't care all that much, at least they've never brought it up to me. Price, quality, service... that's all they ever talk about.

One building I do has over 80,000 square feet of Milliken carpet tiles. They cleaned it with their powder for the first four years and all they had was complaints about how bad the carpet looked. Corners were starting to lift because the powder had worked its way underneath. Edges were fraying from the brush machine. I came in and impressed them with the cleaning, since then it's been cleaned with the Cimex for 3 years... the carpets look better today than when I took over. Trust me, they could care less about their warranty. I could go on with many other examples of carpets that looked like crap when I took over, and now they look amazing. Results speak for themselves, no one else has been able to take these accounts away from me. No, their warranties aren't what they really care about.

Surely I didn't just read where Rick was questioning the quality of carpet from this particular manufacturer, did I?

Sour grapes?

This is a IDGAS thread for most folks.

With the exception of those who only own Cimex machines.

Admiral. Learn how to read. Rick said over and over that he really likes the product that Tandus puts out. Even went as far as to explain why he likes there product. Your comments are more apropriate for the ICS board where everybody likes to tear each other down.

I am sure Marty did not read the post and figured it was negative.

In the case I was talking about the carpet was not replaced due to the manufacturer finding a way to get the carpets cleaned.

This was a very larger university in TX and would have cost a lot of money to replace.

"Real world cleaning results performed on countless commercial carpets all over the world, along with the testing conducted at PTL, indicates that the Cimex/Releasit/FiberPlus system is safe for commercial carpet."







I agree...I toured the testing facility,I noticed the cimex and the juice sitting there,not being hid.What I do remember most is how often the instructors "pumped " or "pimped" one particular line of portables....the same one that they were using...hmmmm a mere coincidence...I think not.I've heard since that class that paid endorsements are not out of the norm for this particular,well respected instructor.





Hey Marty... go fix your truck and stop trying to stir thing up!



Patrick

Looks like I was able to extract some good comments with the article.

First off Thank you for all the responces.. its good to see a plethora of different opinions on this topic. I'm sure it will continue to be a topic of dispute well into the future with Manufactures out of touch with real world technology.

Second I'm not worried about warranty issues with a cimex, I just remember the topic was brought up a while back and someone had talked about the cimex being mentioned explicitly but couldn't find the article. I just happened to find it again so I posted.

For interim encapsulation like many of will agree with, you really can't beat the cimex and releaseit combo for commercial carpet. Rick you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the cimex is both safe and effective and you provide products that do an outstanding job cleaning and maintaining appearance of the carpet.

For all I'm concerned if it comes down to a warranty issue vs providing quality floor care, I'll take quality floor care any day.

sniff ...

Don't worry Marty, we still love you.

I have always had a soft spot for those poor souls that have been misguided through life

I even get on better with animals than peoples

You'all have a great week-end there, I'm off to brekki at the club, then a relaxing day by the pool out of the heat, with the family

Delia's got some great crayfish (lobster tails) and fresh mango for lunch............

Ooroo,

Shorty.

I've seen the light, and changed my wicked ways.
www.get.shorty.com.au