I am wondering for our commercial work if a (counter rotating brush vacuum) 'host' vaccuum such as a 'liberator' or 'freestyle' would be more effective at removing soil or a single beater bar vacuum such as a lindhaus.

Any comments on this Rick or Rambo? Has anyone tried both approaches and compared the two. Please do not mention a pile lifter because they are slow (only pick up going one way) and have not had good results with it compared to a regular sanitaire vacuum.

Thanks

Lindhaus is a very good vacuum. Last time I looked at the Host machine it was only filtering soil down to 6 microns, that meant to me that a lot of soil was being blown back into the airspace. They may have changed that since I last looked at them.

A better option for Pile Lifting would be to use a true Pile Lifter device such as the Kleenrite X-Vac. It's an awesome machine for lifting the nap and digging crud up from the base of the fiber. However a good commercial vacuum cleaner is still the correct tool for recovering fine soil and dust from the carpet. The Lindhaus is an exceptional commercial vacuum cleaner, with its ultra high speed brush roller and hospital grade filtration. However a good workhorse vacuum like the Koblenz could serve you very well if you're looking for a less expensive machine that still performs very well.








Rick Gelinas

My preference is the 18" Hoover Conguest and Miele Profi for commercial work, Hoover is around $450 and the Miele is around $850 and is no longer available. If you can find a Hoover Conquest, get it. I am not sure they are still being made. You do not need a beater bar on commercial carpet, soooooo cfm is more important and that is where the Lindhaus has the edge. I look at the Lindhaus as being more of a resdential unit. I used to distribute them when I owned a Vac Shoppe. Actually Lindhaus means "Clean house" If I were going out to buy some vacs tomorrow for commercial, I would buy the 18" Hoover and a good back pack.

Thank you guys. It seems like I have a couple of different ways to approach the situation and achieve good results. A wider vacuum seems like a good approach since it saves time on those wide hallways. A back pack vacuum never came to mind but it seems to be a good choice for cleaning the edges.

Rambo you mentioned the Lindhaus as having the cfm advantage. I believe I was told my Lindhaus has a 102 cfm rating which seems rather weak to me? The commercial sanitaire (and I suspect the Koblenz?) is rated at a beastly 145 cfm, I think Kirby is around 115. I haven't found a rating for the all metal Royal's but I suspect they are quite high as well.

I have a host free-style and I think it would do quite well as a pile-lifting vac. There are hepa filters available for them now. But as has been mentioned before, these sorts of machines and pile lifters do not suction to the ground very well, so your ideal scenario will be to vacuum after your pile-lifting.

I absolutely love my lindhaus. I would never use anything different. I have a friend who sold Kirby's in college. He told me whenever he would come across a customer with a lindhaus he would walk away because he knew he couldnt compete. Maybe there is a better vacuum out there, I haven't found it.

Mr. Amazing
www.amazingcc.com

I have a Host Liberator in my arsenal. It works extremely well in pile lifting, grooming and getting up deep down dirt. I love it. Now, I started carpet cleaning with Host, but have added alternate carpet cleaning methods.



I like the machine's dirt hopper...no bags.It has 4 filters for great filtration, and they are washable, except for one which is a replaceable felt filter.



There are cheaper alternatives out there, but I would look for one without bags.



I have had the machine for 4 yrs, durable. I maintain it well though. I did replace the vacuum motor once about 6 months ago.



lou

I initially asked about the Liberator and Freestyle because I was under the impression from the countless counter rotating brush machine testimonials that nothing compared when it comes to digging up dirt and raising the pile. Is this not correct?

And wouldn't one assume that attaching a strong vacuum to one of these machines you would have the ultimate in soil removal? This is assuming the brushes do not allow the vacuum to sit too high on the carpet thus adversely affecting suction.

Not "ignorance". That's a good question.

In theory your idea would be correct. One would naturally think that any device such as the Liberator or a Pile Lifter should be able to dig up the pile, and in most cases they will. However these large brush roller machines typically fall short when it comes to actually swallowing the soil. This is because they have such large orifices surrounding their brush (or brushes). It makes it impossible to form a good seal at the carpet so soil recovery is compromised. On the other hand, vacuum cleaners are normally designed with a small brush roller opening that fits right up to the brush roller. Therefore they're not as prone to lose air like a big brush machine will.

I often saw our old Certified Pile Lifter run over debris on the carpet and then spit it right back onto the carpet. It just doesn't pick up all that well. In a perfect world you could perhaps use a pile machine followed by a good commercial vacuum cleaner.

On a side note: That's one of the things I really liked about the X-Vac when I discovered it. Although it's a big brush roller unit, KleenRite addressed the vacuuming performance issue and designed it to do a better job of soil recovery than any other Pile Lifter machine on the market. It's still not as good at soil pick up as a good commercial vacuum cleaner, but it's really not that bad either.








Rick Gelinas

Thanks for the clarification Rick. Now I better understand the advantages and limitations of pile lifter type machinery and traditional vacuums. Looks like a two step process would be the cadillac way to approach my problem.

I used my x-vac on a heavily soiled cgd and it sucked up that soil like really well. So I vacuumed with my conquest afterwards and didn't see anything in the bag. So I feel that the x-vac does an exceptional job as a one step process.

I then used my x-vac alone on a wicking stain (cgd olefin) very short nap with impacted soil trapped under the nap. CIMEXED RELEASED-IT, no extraction, stain never returned.
I truly recommend the X-vac!

Thanks
Your Servant Alex

Cultivate the "OCCD" you had at first for the industry!