Cimex vs 175 Rotary Machine

[Gero43]

Hi, I am new to the forum.

I wanted to clarify a few things that keep me wonder. I currently have a Ninja hot water extractor 375 and a Rotovac Powerwand for residential rentals. I have also tried the 360i but I find the Powerwand more effective, easier to use.

Now, I am trying to get to commercial here and I find Rotovacs do an awful job as they jump around and take a lot of time. I feel the heads are great for thicker carpets but awful for thin carpets such as commercial as the spinning can't really do much. I was thinking of getting carpet brush from Rotovac but we will see the outcome of that.

Now to the point, I rented the Cimex for couple days. I tried it in a bad hallway of a rental building and the manager said he is not impressed with the results. I found the results to be fairly good but he said we do a much better job when we use the Rotovac, however the Rotovac takes me 3 times the time). Also worth to note that the building carpets get cleaned once every year or so only and that the tenants are pretty bad at staining them. I used a chemical that is sold locally that people say is better than the Releaseit, I live on Canada so I haven't found the Releaseit here yet.

Based on my results, I feel that the Cimex is more maintenance and hot water extraction more restorative, am I correct?

I also tried Cimex at home (I don't know what carpet it is but thin, no hair, kind of like CGD) and rotovac or wand did an awful job, but Cimex completely mind blowed me. Residential wise, when carpets are very old, thin and full of cat hair, HWE  does an awful job at removing the hair or make it clean as the hair is stuck to the carpet and neither vacuuming nor HWE takes them, will the Cimex help me on these jobs?

Question is, should I try to combine services of HWE and Cimex or is there any way to make those nasty hallways look better with Cimex than HWE and Rotovac?


Also, I'm a bit lost in terminology, is 175 rotary the same as a floor machine with dual speed used at the lowest speed (175)??
I have this machine, http://www.nacecare.com/products/na20ds, can I put a solution tank and use it for carpets? What else do I need to buy to make it work for carpets? If I don't have a solution tank, can I spray the chemicals with a sprayer (I would like to test how it works before buying the whole package).

Finally, would a 175 do similar job than a Cimex? I know it would take more time though.

Sorry for so many questions, hopefully you guys will be able to answer most the them!

[MikeHabib]

The Rotovac Powerwand is not good on commercial grade carpet because of what you just said. The floor below the carpet may not be totally flat and it will jump around on you. The 360I with the speed turned down will do a much better job.
I have never used a Cimex however I do use a duel speed rotary with cotton pads. That does work well if the carpets are not trashed. In some cases I will use my Vonschrader LMX first and then go back over it with my Rotary. Hope this helps.

[encapman]

The Rotovac is probably not going to wow you on commercial carpet. My experience with rotary extractors on CGD carpet has normally been less than I had hoped for. I like the Rotovac 360. And I think it has a place in the residential arsenal, and for some limited commercial work. But the problem is the same as it's always been - hot water extraction comes up short way too often when we're dealing with a heavily soiled CGD carpet.

So what method do we come up with for commercial? Experience has shown that low moisture methods are far more consistent on commercial carpet. Don't get me wrong, hot water extraction has the potential to remove the greatest the amount of soil with a single cleaning. But that doesn't change the fact that HWE falls flat on its face a lot of the time on CGD. Wicking and recurring spill stains are extremely aggravating with CGD carpet. Encapsulation and other low moisture methods do a much better job than HWE.

The Cimex machine on CGD carpet will rock your world! That's not an exaggeration. That simple fact that has been well supported buy multitudes of carpet cleaners around the world. Especially when you use a top-notch encapsulation detergent like Releasit! Another alternative is to use an orbital machine like the Vario. The Vario can really open doors. It is nimble and extremely smooth running. And it effectively combines 2 methods of cleaning = Encapsulation + Absorption thru the bonnets. For your commercial accounts, utilizing a Cimex machine or a Vario (with Releasit) will transform what you're doing! I guarantee it.

P.S. A rotary with Releasit and Microbeast bonnets can work well too. There's just much less agitation taking place, and it requires more energy to run a rotary. So you may need to scrub slower and work a bit harder to get the job done. On larger jobs especially, that could be a negative factor.

[Gero43]

Thank for the feedback.

So, based on what you are saying, I tried a CGD hallway where everybody walks by everyday from outside including snow and salt and gets cleaned probably once or twice a year. The carpet overall is crazy dirty. Cimex did not do amazing, it may have been worn out.

Would hot water extraction followed by Cimex next day work best?
Or would cimex 2 days in a row work better?
Does using the cimex more times provide you a better job or once is enough to see if the job can be succesful or not?

On Hallways that are not that dirty but have stains everywhere as there is animals or garbage spills or even a coffee spilled, I haven't got much success with Cimex, should I prespray the stains with something else or is there any other method or just pass Cimex and if the stains didn't go away, thats it? (As compared to carpet extrators where you prespray or have a spot kit for any special stain)

[encapman]

As I mentioned above, sometimes HWE is the best option. After all it has the ability to unload the carpet of humongous soil loads. But plan for humongous wicking too. So a post-encapping may likely be required to get that under control.

Working with the right encap solution is a huge factor. I hear from guys all the time who say they've tried encap but weren't blown away, but they haven't tried Releasit yet. Well it could be said that they really HAVEN'T experienced encap; at least not encap at its highest level. For ice melt - Encap-HydrOx is what you NEED. It will blow ice melt to pieces and eliminate the brownish staining that occurs. Using Encap-Clean DS2 for everyday soil loads is a what I recommend. It is amazing! Encap-Clean DS2 plows through normal to heavy soil loads quick and easy. It will make the carpet shine!

You also need to factor in your skill level working with the Cimex. It takes a little bit of practice to become good at it. Learning how much solution to apply, avoiding over-wetting, getting a handle on how many passes to make for various soil loads, and learning how fast to walk is all part of the technique. Once you're proficient with the Cimex though - it can bulldoze right through the worst of it. You'll have a formidable commercial cleaning combo when you use the Cimex with high quality encap sauce!

I hope this helps you to get a better picture of what you can expect. If I can assist you to get up to speed with the Cimex I'll be happy to help walk you through it. Send me a PM with your phone number and we can talk for a few a minutes. That should help you get a handle on running the Cimex.

[Lounge Lizards]

The Cimex has no equal on direct stick or glue down commercial carpet with regards to rotaries or orbital machines.

The orbital has an advantage of being able to use bonnet, brush or pads, although the Cimex can also use brushes and to a lesser degree, bonnets.

I believe that I can get a reasonable result with dirty carpets on commercial carpet.

HEAVY load soils do need to be extracted for best results, although there are also inherent risks as pointed out above.

But for maintenance, nothing beats the Cimex in my opinion.

This from an office adjacent to a truck workshop.





I doubt that you will ever get these results using a rotary or an orbital.

WOW, chuck some gas on the fire Shorty.  

[Lounge Lizards]

On this job, every third/fourth clean, I do resort to a pre-scrub with my 360i prior to encapping with the Cimex.





Hope this helps.

[encapman]

I like your approach Shorty! I agree that following up HWE with the Cimex on a CGD carpet makes for a killer combo on heavily soiled carpet.

[lee@deepclean.us.com]

Shorty is the "Jedi Master" of Down Under!

[Lounge Lizards]

Thanks for the nice words guys, but I'm just the normal, run of the mill Encapper down under.

[Gero43]

Thanks a lot for the feedback.


A few other quick questions that went unanswered, if I have a carpet that is high traffic, let's say 500 people walk by it everyday with shoes full of snow and dirt from outside, how often should I do that hallway? Once every month, 3 months? 6 months? I want it to make it look fairly nice most of the time without making manager's a huge expense.

Also, if there is stain on a certain areas, I've heard you must prespray the area, should I use the same encap product in a spray bottle to prespray? If so, do I need to agitate it somehow before I pass the cimex?

if I passed the Cimex once and some stains did not go away, should I go again? with or without more chemicals? or just give it up and try another method?

What happens if I put more than 4 ounces per gallon? I know sometimes more is not better, but if carpet is bad should I use anymore dilution?


Hopefully these are all my questions, already ordered Releaseit I'll give it a try in a week or so.

[encapman]

Encap-HydrOx works great on ice melt!!! That's what I'd recommend.

For a high traffic area / problem area, I would suggest monthly cleaning.

Depending on the stains, you can use a stronger version of Releasit as a spot remover. For an even more direct approach you could use Encap-Spot. It's an all around spot cleaner that doesn't require rinsing. In cases where there are specialty stains, a specialty spotting product - like CTI produces may be required. However most spots will come up with Releasit. :-)

The way to run a Cimex is 1 moderately quick wet-pass, followed by a moderately slow dry-pass. On the dry pass you can feather the trigger slightly to keep the pads damp. On heavily soiled areas you may need to make an additional dry=pass or two. That's about it. Your production speed should range between 2,000-3,000 sq ft per hour, and you should average around300 sq ft of RTU diluted product. That should give you a framework to shoot for.

Wishing you success! If I can help let me know.

[leofry@1966]

just to summarize.
on crazy heavy dirty commercial carpet are you saying
encap first and the HWE
OR
HWE and then encap

John Roger

[encapman]

On crazy heavy dirty commercial carpet ...
HWE and then encap.

Why is that the best approach?
Because a very thorough HWE will hopefully reduce the level of crud in the carpet. I use the word "reduce" because NOTHING will totally unload all of the crud in a trashed commercial carpet. And since you're attempting to clean such a heavy soil load in the carpet, some residue will invariably remain following the HWE cleaning, thus wicking will likely occur. To correct the wicking, come back a day or two after the HWE cleaning and provide a follow-up post-encap cleaning.  The follow-up post-encap cleaning will help to eliminate the wicking. Encap-HydrOx will perform extremely well for that post-encap cleaning. Because of its acidic nature and strong hydrogen peroxide, it will work to neutralize the wicking residue. Performing this dual approach can go a long way toward improving a trashed commercial carpet. Of course you will also need to price the job accordingly.

[leofry@1966]

great info, and when you say HWE first do you need to wait until its completely dry or just once done with HWE go ahead and encap