Cimex vs 175 Rotary Machine

[encapman]

It's always better to go back after it's had an opportunity to wick. Generally speaking, your results will be better if you return a day or two after the HWE cleaning.

[Rick J]

No good answer to this . Neglected carpet. High traffic really dirty and only cleaned once a year. I am sure it is really looked after during that year!!!LOL! And expected to make it all better quickly, and cheap!!!

I am surprised no one got up on soapbox and screamed VACUUM,
VAC then VAC some more, before using any method.

[encapman]

If they're simply looking for the least expensive way to make it look better - then ENCAP is the only game in town. Encap will make a tremendous impact! The carpet will look vastly improved.

The singular benefit of a pre HWE cleaning is to attempt to unload the carpet of the highest soil load possible, prior to bringing it under control with a good encap maintenance program.

But if all they want is the cheapest alternative, ENCAP alone, or ENCAP along with bonnets/pads, will produce very acceptable results.

And yes of course, ALL methods of cleaning starts off with good dry soil recovery. That's a given.

[GroovyJon]

Im going to put my 2 cents in on this, believe me what im gonna say is not politically correct. This is not any attempt to knock HWE, just experience from my long years in the commercial side of things.

Encap is a general term or process - We here know that all encap is not created equal. I think it would be a great idea to replace "encap" with "release it". Encap is like saying "automobile" yes they all drive etc.. but there are pintos and porches if you catch my drift. Reason I say this is I have heard too many times " I used encap and didn't like it" the very product your using can make all the difference in the world. The word "encap" seems to generalize every product out there which is not fair.

I have had maintenance accounts for 25 years and still going. I was pro HWE and did it for more years then I would like to admit. That being said when encap came around I was very stubborn to try it and didn't believe it would work etc... Over the years I have tried numerous encap products, release it is the best by far.

When I started using encap (not release it) for maintenance on commercial accounts the results were acceptable although I did notice at times I would have to use HWE to get the carpet back in shape over time. When I switched to release it carpets stayed beautiful, a massive improvement, I can only assume that other products that do not fully crystallize and not truly break away from the fiber post vacuuming cause a build up.

In terms of hardcore restoration, I have to say its amazing what release it can do. Over the years with experience and techniques I have had better results with release it then HWE. I have just had too many times using HWE then going to release it and to my surprise release it comes out looking better. Plus the benefit that its an enduring cleaner. Don't get me wrong im not stating I kicked HWE to the curb as its a tool in the box always.

I just want to give release it some credit when it comes to the hardcore restoration, in my experience it can hold it own in some of the nastiest carpet I've seen.

[encapman]

I'll add another wrinkle...

If you want to achieve a higher level of "restorative cleaning"on a badly soiled carpet, using the ENCAP method - take a 2-in-1 dual method approach...

1. Use Releasit as your Encap detergent.
2. Use MicroBeast bonnets (commercial) or MicroGlide bonnets (residential).

By combining good encapsulation along with absorption through microfiber bonnets you're effectively taking a two pronged approach to get the soil under control. It works! I've personally seen very heavily soiled commercial carpet turn out amazingly well using Releasit and the MicroBeast bonnets. Just take your time with the bonnets, don't over-wet the carpet, let the bonnets do their work, and prepare to be wowed. I love running MicroBeast bonnets on the VARIO with either Encap-Clean DS2 or Encap-HydrOx! It can make a filthy carpet look almost new again.

[Gero43]

Thanks to everyone for their help. I finally bought the Cimex, tried it in my house (low pile carpet) and in a residential rental (high pile carpet). Pictures attached.


First 3 pictures are: Before, after Cimex and after HW with rotovac on the same area. Satisfied with the results.
Last 2 are my house: After Cimex and HW with Rotovac (looks pretty good) and the other one is 2 days later (it looks weird), I'm not sure if it is because of the kind of carpet that make it look weird.


Sorry about picture quality, it is not the best at night.















So far I have two questions:
I also did the entrance of a building and the carpet looked spotless, smelled great right after Cimex, but next day when I came back it looked same colour as before and some salt stains reappeared. (I was using release it 2 not the hydro one so I'm not so worried about salt stains) but the colour looked bad like it was never done almost.

Second thing is, when doing Cimex and then HWE, should I wait for the Releaseit to fully dry before HWE? and is it better to do HWE first and then Cimex a day after or it doesn't really matter?

[encapman]

1. If the color is off, then you likely have wicking. Sounds like a little practice with the process will help. Using LOW MOISTURE and getting a feel for what you're doing, applying an even light amount of solution will help you produce good results.

2. If you're looking to do a restoration on a troublesome carpet, then do a HWE cleaning first. Then after it's dry - the next day or later do a VLM "very low moisture" post-encap cleaning. This 2 step approach works well to bring a problem carpet back to life.

Hope this helps

[Gero43]

Thanks to everybody that replied! I know there's probably plenty of people wondering how it works and nobody posts pictures, so here I am to help whoever has same questions and doesn't want to test everything lol.

I did several testing using HWE and Cimex combined and Cimex alone, using different spray methods. Note that HWE I use a Michaels 150 2 vacuums, attached to a Rotovac Powerwand.

Image link Here. http://postimg.org/gallery/fba7slby/e9465c86/

Last 5 pictures: Show the dirt before I started.
Picture 1 and 2: Shows the full area I tested after it was cleaned.

*Note that I divided my tests into 3 almost same size squared areas. Up until the end of the beige wall on the left (used Releaseit 1:16 as prespray everywhere, then Cimex)., up until the first blue wall on the left that comes out (used regular prespray plus Cimex), and the rest till the back wall (used my regular prespray (attack plus citrus), Cimex and then HWE right away)

Picture 3 and 4: You can see results of the second and third area zoomed in.


As it shows, I am impressed by the results as it took down some stains that I thought were not going to come out. I did not test against hot water extraction alone so I have no comparison for that. Also, I did not post vacuum.

Conclusions: Releasit as prespray and then Cimex seemed to have worked best (even though it was fairly cleaner than the other areas so I'm not sure if this holds true). Hot water extraction with the Rotovac seemed highly ineffective (perhaps due to the Rotovac heads that left the carpet looking uneven).


Next, I'll be trying HWE, leaving it overnight and then Cimex.

Many questions:
1. Using more Releaseit, let's say 1:16 on the Cimex, would it help or make it worse, or same thing just waste of chemicals?
2. If I do Cimex, do I wait until it dries up and then HWE, or right away?
3. When prespraying Releasit, do I need to wait until it dries up or a few minutes is fine to Cimex it?
4. I'll be doing some luxury condos hallways tomorrow, any tips to make it better?
5. What's the range of charge people usually charge per square feet? just to have an idea, I know it changes per area, I just always charge per job and I'm being asked per Square feet.
6. If the stains almost desappeared but you can still see them, should I wait for it to fully dry, then try going with the Cimex again? and if so, should I vacuum in between the first and second attempt?

Thanks again! Sorry for the long post!

[encapman]

Thanks for sharing your observations and for asking some good questions. :-)

1. Using more Releasit, let's say 1:16 on the Cimex, would it help or make it worse, or same thing just waste of chemicals?

Nope. Stick with the directions on the label - 4 oz per gallon. Only in the most extreme cases would you ever bump it up to say 6 oz per gaallon.

2. If I do Cimex, do I wait until it dries up and then HWE, or right away?

To correct potential wicking, it is best to let the carpet dry following HWE cleaning, prior to encap cleaning. The post encap cleaning can be done the following day for best results, after the carept has had a chance to do its ugly wicking.

3. When pre-spraying Releasit, do I need to wait until it dries up or a few minutes is fine to Cimex it?

Never allow any pre-spray to dry before cleaning. Always begin cleaning within a few minutes - before it has a chance to dry. If it does happen to dry before you get to it, pre-spray all over again.

4. I'll be doing some luxury condos hallways tomorrow, any tips to make it better?

Cimex!

5. What's the range of charge people usually charge per square feet? just to have an idea, I know it changes per area, I just always charge per job and I'm being asked per Square feet.

That's all over the map. Well over .20 per sq ft for smaller jobs or high end work. As low as .07 for really HUGE jobs where the competition is stiff. It's a sliding scale. You need to evaluate the job to come up with what seems appropriate.

6. If the stains almost disappeared but you can still see them, should I wait for it to fully dry, then try going with the Cimex again? and if so, should I vacuum in between the first and second attempt?

Yes, just double back and hit the problem spots with another pass. AVOID adding much (or possibly any) more solution. Keep your moisture at a minimum and give it some additional scrubbing. Another helpful technique with the Cimex is to throw on some Tuway or Microfiber bonnets and run over any trouble sections again while the carpet's still damp.

Hope that helps! :-)

[Gero43]

Thanks again for your prompt answers.

Alright, so I checked a job I did earlier and did another one...pictures on the link http://postimg.org/gallery/ji5etgre/c8ba4049/

Same issues again...it seems very inconsistent... stains are coming out most of them, but weird streaks remain and some dark spots...what am I doing wrong here?

Picture 1 and 7: Stain before and after....didn't come out using the Cimex and regular dilution 1:32. Spent several minutes scrubbing, didn't overspray it, didn't come out. Didn't have an extra hour to wait and redo it but it seems even like that it may not come out... what to do here?

Picture 2 and 4: Cleaning went well, stains went out, now there is lines where the machine went by and the left side on picture 4 looks weird too.... doesn't look like all even.

Picture 3: White letters on carpet do not get cleaner. I did it once, waited for it to dry and did it again, still if you look at it, white letters are dirty.

Picture 5 and 6: Another job, diplomats I've done carpet cleaning for before, she noticed a lot of streaks everywhere, you can see in picture there is darker spots (besides the lighting shades). All stains came out much faster than when I did HWE there before with my Rotovac, a lot easier and faster with Cimex, however, she preferred HWE because of the streaks. She pays a lot of attention to perfection. So, how to avoid this?

Basically dark spots, streaks, uneven look, and one rare one tough stain. What should I do ?!
People seem to prefer our regular HWE service more, but it is not very profitable as it takes us soooo much time. I'm trying to sort issues out here to make Cimex work full time for me and avoid bringing HWE as much as possible.

[encapman]

Way too much to type in a post. Send me a PM and I will call you and talk to you. I think I should be able to help you get up to speed with the encap process. It's super simple. But there are a few things to get a handle on. Shoot me a message with your contact info and some good times for me to call you.

[encapman]

I tried calling you a couple of times today, but kept getting your voicemail. Here's a quick description that should help to get you rolling more smoothly...

Try not to overthink this process. It really is simple! You rarely need to pre-spray in front of the Cimex. And you even more rarely would ever need to resort to HWE. To get the best results it essentially comes down to smoothness of operation with your Cimex machine.

Make a moderate paced wet pass, Followed by a slower dry pass. If the area needs additional scrubbing make another dry pass or possibly two. You can feather the trigger slightly on your dry passes. Avoid over-wetting the carpet! Again, the focus is smoothness of operation. Blend the carpet together. Look for a nice even clean appearance.

Movement of pile will naturally occur, so there may be lines in the carpet. Those will walk out of the carpet with a couple of days of foot traffic vacuuming. Explain this to your customer. It's nothing to be alarmed about, anymore than the impressions left in the carpet from the vacuum cleaner.

Once you get the hang of it, you'll find the encap process with the Cimex machine is incredibly efficient! That's why it has become so popular for maintaining commercial carpet. Keep it simple. Run your machine with the thought of looking for a smooth and even appearance. And as you become more familiar with the process, you'll find that it's extremely easy and effective.

[GroovyJon]

Hey Rick, just a quick question / idea. I know after using cimex I have read a few people that are either happy or unhappy with the nap of the carpet after (rings and such). Have you ever tried after doing an area with cimex then going over with a crb. Would this help in taking out the ring marks., you know kind like the old pile brushes. Also if the cimex method is not properly done or too much chemical used this could aid in additional agitation. I guess it would be a bit of a reverse method instead of crb before cimex.... just a thought

[encapman]

Yes, if for some reason a person was determined to remove the swirl marks, they could quickly run over the carpet with a CRB while the carpet is still wet. They would then be able to replace the swirl marks with brushed pile markings instead.

[FloorCareMD]

I use my Powerwand on residential carpets and really like it. I once thought too that it is worthless on CGD carpets because it spins much too fast and bounces.
So, I installed a simple router speed control box to the Powerwand up by the handle and can now slow the speed down and it works very well now CGD. I like that it also has the on/off switch up at the handle now so I don't have to use the foot switch.
Rick is right. Extraction first followed by encap/action works very well.
Just did our hall with it followed by the Orbot with encap cleaner. Looked like new carpet and it's 15 years old. Color went from drab brownish green to a bright olive color.