Scampooer Poo

[FloorCareMD]

Anyone ever see this goons blog? http://a-1carpetservice.blogspot.com/
Calls companies that use Cimex machines "scampooers" and hacks.

"They do it because they can use a minivan and almost no investment in equipment."

I believe this says it all about his prejudice and ignorance. He is angry or feeling sorry for himself that he spent a lot of money on a truckmount and is loosing business to companies using encap methods and for some reason he feels he is entitled to those accounts.

There is plenty of carpets out there and there is no reason to slam anyone that runs a legitimate, insured business. It competition.

I loose plenty of vct business to small companies with an electric buffer and a mop bucket. Good for them! Just because I own two garages full of propane buffers, strippers, autoscrubbers does not mean that I think those that don't are hacks or scamming customers. Results are results.

just my $0.02

[MikeB]

If a rock is tossed into a pack of dogs which one yelps? The one who got hurt.

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Ooooo I just made "encap pro"
Too bad I"m such an uneducated scammer.

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I guess I can understand the fear of losing business to folks with a lot less start up and operating expense but I wouldn't bash people and generalize like he is.
It's easier to be bitter and point fingers than to adapt and accept change.

[TheCleaningDude]

If you look at some of the bigger boards, especially TMF at the moment, you'll see quite a bit going on in terms of method debate.

People get really worked up over it.

[Cairnswun]

Be aware of what others are doing, but don't get stressed by it.

Just keep on doing things the way you know which works best.

By doing things differently, you'll stand out from the crowd.

Sure, you may be a bit more expensive but the quality of your work is worth it and particular people notice.

Don't even bother knocking this guy that is knocking others, he's not worth it.

Your time is worth more to you and your clients than to worry about what he has to say.

If by chance you should meet one day and he brings the subject up, don't agree and don't argue, just say "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even the dull and the ignorant".

[encapman]

Although this person's blog is very biased, there are elements of what he's saying that I can agree with.

I've always felt that straight encap is not the best choice for residential carpet cleaning. Now encap in conjunction with bonnet/OP cleaning or with HWE makes sense. For example, if you're performing bonnet/OP or HWE using an encap detergent - in that case you're actually performing two methods of soil extraction (the primary method of bonnet/OP or HWE, and the secondary method of encapsulation).

However I'm not comfortable with leaving all the encapsulated soil in a residential carpet. I know there are a lot of carpet cleaners who are performing straight encap in a residential setting. But I question if it's thorough enough. When the kids come home from school after the carpet's been cleaned, the carpet should be as emptied as possible of its soil content, before the kids roll around on it again.

On the other hand, I still feel that encap is a better fit for commercial carpet. In fact it's perfect for commercial carpet. HWE will very often crash and burn on commercial carpet, whereas encap will make it shine!

That being said, this guys blog was over the top! He obviously feels threatened by the encap method of cleaning. Poor guy.

[NJP]

You must remember TMF was totally HWE and they are just starting to come around. Don't let it bother you.

[Cairnswun]

You must remember TMF was totally HWE and they are just starting to come around. Don't let it bother you.

What/who is TMF???

Let's just stop telling everyone how good it is for commercial.


(Sorry Rick)

[MikeB]

I agree with Rick about residential encap. I think a residential customer expects carpets to be rid of all possible soil when we leave. Counting on them to finish the extraction process isn't something I would do. If I use an encap product in this setting I always finish with cotton or cotton/poly pads wrung out with hot water.
As far as people arguing about methods, that will never end.
Btw I think the oxyfresh franchise does crb with and oxi encap exclusively. I could be wrong but if so, I guess they are counting on customers to post vac.

[David-Hebert]

It is all about using the right tool for the right job. You must also take the trype of client you are dealing with under consideration. We have clients that will not accept anything but mechanical agitation, extracting, then post padding or , mechanical agitation, extracting. You do what you know is best for the client the heck with what someone else thinks . These people do not feed my family our clients do.

[A1CS]

Anyone ever see this goons blog? http://a-1carpetservice.blogspot.com/
Calls companies that use Cimex machines "scampooers" and hacks.

"They do it because they can use a minivan and almost no investment in equipment."

I believe this says it all about his prejudice and ignorance. He is angry or feeling sorry for himself that he spent a lot of money on a truckmount and is loosing business to companies using encap methods and for some reason he feels he is entitled to those accounts.

There is plenty of carpets out there and there is no reason to slam anyone that runs a legitimate, insured business. It competition.

I loose plenty of vct business to small companies with an electric buffer and a mop bucket. Good for them! Just because I own two garages full of propane buffers, strippers, autoscrubbers does not mean that I think those that don't are hacks or scamming customers. Results are results.

just my $0.02

I am the "goon" that you refer to in your post.

As I read through the posts in this thread, many of you have comments about accepting change and losing customers and feeliing sorry for myself. Well you obviously missed the point of the blog article.

The point is market share of floor covering. The issue I have with scampooing residential carpet is the residue, not the process. Rinse out the residue and you are not a scampooer.

I used LST before most of you knew what carpet cleaning was. I am intimately familiar with all the different process's to clean carpet. I am only intrested in the process approved by the manufacturer of the carpet and maintaing the warranty coverage.

When and IF the manufacturers decide to approve encapsulation cleaning of residential carpet I will be on board.

Thanks for your time,

Harold Pastian
A-1 Carpet Service
Sioux Falls, SD
605-359-1098
www.a1cs.a12000.com

[encapman]

Welcome to our message board Harold. I am the owner and I heartily want to encourage you to participate. I too have been around this industry for a few years, 30 to be exact.

And I also used LST in the past like you, and spent a fair amount of time getting to know it's original promoter Ed York. LST is a great product. However it is not a true encapsulator as compared to newer polymer based products like Releasit.

And as you can see from my comments above, I agree with your position that straight encap alone is not the best choice for most residential settings. On the other hand, encap blows the doors off HWE in a commercial setting, especially if you're planning to do any serious amount of commercial work.

Methods are like tools in the toolbox. No sane person would ever be inclined to build a house with a hammer alone. Yet using appropriate tools for their intended task makes the job flow efficiently. And when it comes to commercial carpet cleaning (what encap was designed for) encap has proven to be a mighty solid hammer.

So like I said, WELCOME aboard. Please feel free to jump in and participate. Even if you have a differing view. An open discussion is always good!

[David Edwards]

Welcome to the forum, Harold. I, too, have been around carpet cleaning for quite a few years (since about '93). I used to be one of those cleaners who believed that if it wasn't cleaned with a truckmount then it wasn't really cleaned.

However, I started messing with encap back in ... 2004? Anyway, chemistry has come a long way in those years in the cleaning industry and encap is no different. A quality encap product will leave no residue.

If you don't currently utilize VLM aas one of your methods, I encourage it. Not to replace your TM, but, as Rick mentioned, to add to your arsenal. Once you learn it, I promise you won't regret it.

[SLOTOOLS]

I have 3 townhomes that I will encap today- if the carpets were bad, I would still employ HWE, but so far most folks LOVE the quick drying and appearance that MY OP is performing.
Yes a great tool in the toolbox. Welcome Harold!

[A1CS]

Welcome to our message board Harold. I am the owner and I heartily want to encourage you to participate. I too have been around this industry for a few years, 30 to be exact.

And I also used LST in the past like you, and spent a fair amount of time getting to know it's original promoter Ed York. LST is a great product. However it is not a true encapsulator as compared to newer polymer based products like Releasit.

And as you can see from my comments above, I agree with your position that straight encap alone is not the best choice for most residential settings. On the other hand, encap blows the doors off HWE in a commercial setting, especially if you're planning to do any serious amount of commercial work.

Methods are like tools in the toolbox. No sane person would ever be inclined to build a house with a hammer alone. Yet using appropriate tools for their intended task makes the job flow efficiently. And when it comes to commercial carpet cleaning (what encap was designed for) encap has proven to be a mighty solid hammer.

So like I said, WELCOME aboard. Please feel free to jump in and participate. Even if you have a differing view. An open discussion is always good!

Good old Ed, great guy. Throw in Lee Pemberton, the Paulson Brothers and their are the pioneers of our industry. ( I started out working for Rod and Darrel)

You speak of tools in the toolbox, I know exactly where that comes from. You and I know we can get a carpet clean with a squirt bottle and a shop vac.

I agree with you absolutely 100% My main concerns are the rub and run guys. They don't even carry an extractor. Of course they don't get called back, but they affect us all in the long run. People get tired of it and put down laminates and tile. (which I service as well) but we just need to educate the customers.

You are right, chemistry in this industry has come a long ways from LST. I applaud the work the manufactures and distributors are doing with the chemicals and the process.

I am frustrated that persons entering this profession today do not seem to have the Ed York's we had. So they "research" on the internet and become "experts" They don't seem to be compelled to learn, the "right" way to do things. Heck most CC's don't even carry a repair kit.

We will always have hacks and scampooers. Not many offering the old Von Schrader system anymore. As for encapping commercial, I have no problem with that, and as you know the mills suggest HWE to rinse that periodically as well.

Thank you very much for the welcome, I appreciate it.


HP

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Welcome to the forum, Harold. I, too, have been around carpet cleaning for quite a few years (since about '93). I used to be one of those cleaners who believed that if it wasn't cleaned with a truckmount then it wasn't really cleaned.

However, I started messing with encap back in ... 2004? Anyway, chemistry has come a long way in those years in the cleaning industry and encap is no different. A quality encap product will leave no residue.

If you don't currently utilize VLM aas one of your methods, I encourage it. Not to replace your TM, but, as Rick mentioned, to add to your arsenal. Once you learn it, I promise you won't regret it.

Thank you David...Can an old dog learn a new trick? I'm a stubborn German. I remember the first bonnets I bought, was never impressed but they had their place, and used properly worked wonders.

My concerns are the opportunists, that don't buy quality chemicals, they buy liquid tide and go to town.

Many of you will say, "don't worry about what others are doing" well darn it, their in lies the problem.

Thanks again for the welcome.

[Cairnswun]

Welcome to the friendly forum Harold.

I've not been in the industry for to long but I can understand where you are coming from, I also agree with many points raised, having been brought up on HWE, (especially after my disastrous run with shampoo in the early '70's).

Encap; is my main cleaning system now and has been for close on the last decade.

Due to Ricks' (& others) insistence, I also offer pad capping, or bonnet cleaning which, I believe, acts as the rinse in comparison to HWE.

I do carry a small porty for those jobs where I believe encap; or padding will not achieve the best results.

Larger jobs I pass on to those that have the knowledge & equipment needed.

As you would be aware, after encapping, vacuuming the carpet when dry, is also the equivalent of rinsing with HWE.

I value discussions like this as the members get to see and hear both sides of the story not only from other encappers/padders, but also those that make their living with HWE.

Many thanks for your comments.

Shorty.