Dwell time

[george8585]

In my past life I was a flat rate GM service dept tech. I made a career out of being efficient.
Doing vlm is time consuming but with efficient steps and having a system in place that is repetitive, it's not so bad. I almost never have a helper and almost always hit or exceed my target dollar per hour on residential. I don't do 5 homes a day and don't want to. Everything is realative.
Vlm can be extremely low overhead and very high profit margin. I'd just rather work at a comfortable pace and keep more or what I earn.

That's the best thing about VLM, extremely low overhead and high profit margin. A helper cuts into your profit. But, most customers want you to do a good job, and leave. If it takes to long, their not going to be satisfied. The whole time your there, they are waiting for you to get done.

[BGCD]

In my past life I was a flat rate GM service dept tech. I made a career out of being efficient.
Doing vlm is time consuming but with efficient steps and having a system in place that is repetitive, it's not so bad. I almost never have a helper and almost always hit or exceed my target dollar per hour on residential. I don't do 5 homes a day and don't want to. Everything is realative.
Vlm can be extremely low overhead and very high profit margin. I'd just rather work at a comfortable pace and keep more or what I earn.

That's the best thing about VLM, extremely low overhead and high profit margin. A helper cuts into your profit. But, most customers want you to do a good job, and leave. If it takes to long, their not going to be satisfied. The whole time your there, they are waiting for you to get done.

George I agree. They want you out. You will have the occasional customer who wants to chat. But most want a nice looking carpet. And for you to get. I just try to maximize two vans. We can usually do 1,500$ a day without any problem with one tech on each van. I don't want to do 5 a day. But I also don't want a 3rd van. Most techs don't want to do 3 a day. Not much money. It's hard to balance.

[MikeB]

The largest home I currently do on a regular basis is an 11 room home that takes me about 5 hours. No helper. $550.00 material cost : under $10.00 including gas getting there (it's close to home )
This woman is a talker though and doesn't mind me being there so long. I'm sure some would rather I be gone in 2 but she also loves that the floors are dry in a couple hours and not wet for 2 days like when she used to call Stanley steemer.
It is a niche market for sure and most of my customers seem to be ok with it taking a bit longer because the value of dry floors in a couple hours outweighs the inconvenience of me being there a while longer.

[george8585]

I'm just learning the VLM system, I want it to work. I'm 90 % TM 10 % VLM. I only due lightly soiled carpets with VLM as of now. I need to develop confidence it will work, and get faster at it. I'm in no way criticizing VLM. I have all the equipment I need to get the job done right, Orbot, Cimex, Cyclo, 13'' 175-300 Rotary, 15'' Whittaker CRB, Stepson,
Pro Team Backpack Vacuum, Pro Team 15XP Vacuum. In the last year I have spent well over $10,000.00 dollars on VLM Equipment pads/bonnets. I'm just trying to figure out the fastest way to get the job done right.

[BGCD]

I'm just learning the VLM system, I want it to work. I'm 90 % TM 10 % VLM. I only due lightly soiled carpets with VLM as of now. I need to develop confidence it will work, and get faster at it. I'm in no way criticizing VLM. I have all the equipment I need to get the job done right, Orbot, Cimex, Cyclo, 13'' 175-300 Rotary, 15'' Whittaker CRB, Stepson,
Pro Team Backpack Vacuum, Pro Team XP Vacuum. In the last year I have spent well over $10,000.00 dollars on VLM Equipment pads/bonnets. I'm just trying to figure out the fastest way to get the job done right.

Nice list George. Right now I do all commercial work with a Cimex. And all residential with HCE. I am a ChemDry franchise. I want to buy a Trinity and a CRB soon. We dry in two hours or less using a RX20 type machine. And use a CD version of a Hydramaster 4.8DD unit. Results are good. But I would rather use a CRB and a wand. And then incorporate some CRb/Trinity in some residential. But I am very much in favor of encap only on commercial.

[JuddBowers]

I'm just learning the VLM system, I want it to work. I'm 90 % TM 10 % VLM. I only due lightly soiled carpets with VLM as of now. I need to develop confidence it will work, and get faster at it. I'm in no way criticizing VLM. I have all the equipment I need to get the job done right, Orbot, Cimex, Cyclo, 13'' 175-300 Rotary, 15'' Whittaker CRB, Stepson,
Pro Team Backpack Vacuum, Pro Team 15XP Vacuum. In the last year I have spent well over $10,000.00 dollars on VLM Equipment pads/bonnets. I'm just trying to figure out the fastest way to get the job done right.

If your experience is similar to mine, you'll soon be doing near 100% vlm and wondering what took so long. I compared/contrasted HWE vs VLM with my janitorial accounts for three years. I'm stubborn like that, I just couldn't believe VLM was as good as HWE, much less SUPERIOR! I padcap, meaning, I spray, scrub, extract with bonnet on every job. My janitorial accounts have been nothing but encapped for the last 5 years and are much cleaner than they ever were when I was HWEing them. No build up of product like many TM guys claim. My home as well, only encapped, no HWE for 5 years.

I post this having just fixed a commercial HWE job by using an Orbot, DS2, and some microfiber bonnets. Browning gone.

[george8585]

I'm just learning the VLM system, I want it to work. I'm 90 % TM 10 % VLM. I only due lightly soiled carpets with VLM as of now. I need to develop confidence it will work, and get faster at it. I'm in no way criticizing VLM. I have all the equipment I need to get the job done right, Orbot, Cimex, Cyclo, 13'' 175-300 Rotary, 15'' Whittaker CRB, Stepson,
Pro Team Backpack Vacuum, Pro Team XP Vacuum. In the last year I have spent well over $10,000.00 dollars on VLM Equipment pads/bonnets. I'm just trying to figure out the fastest way to get the job done right.

Nice list George. Right now I do all commercial work with a Cimex. And all residential with HCE. I am a ChemDry franchise. I want to buy a Trinity and a CRB soon. We dry in two hours or less using a RX20 type machine. And use a CD version of a Hydramaster 4.8DD unit. Results are good. But I would rather use a CRB and a wand. And then incorporate some CRb/Trinity in some residential. But I am very much in favor of encap only on commercial.

I was going to buy a Trinity, but bought a Orbot, because of weight. Trinity weighs 110 pounds. If your using it for residential, getting it up and down steps would be difficult.

[BGCD]

I'm just learning the VLM system, I want it to work. I'm 90 % TM 10 % VLM. I only due lightly soiled carpets with VLM as of now. I need to develop confidence it will work, and get faster at it. I'm in no way criticizing VLM. I have all the equipment I need to get the job done right, Orbot, Cimex, Cyclo, 13'' 175-300 Rotary, 15'' Whittaker CRB, Stepson,
Pro Team Backpack Vacuum, Pro Team XP Vacuum. In the last year I have spent well over $10,000.00 dollars on VLM Equipment pads/bonnets. I'm just trying to figure out the fastest way to get the job done right.

Nice list George. Right now I do all commercial work with a Cimex. And all residential with HCE. I am a ChemDry franchise. I want to buy a Trinity and a CRB soon. We dry in two hours or less using a RX20 type machine. And use a CD version of a Hydramaster 4.8DD unit. Results are good. But I would rather use a CRB and a wand. And then incorporate some CRb/Trinity in some residential. But I am very much in favor of encap only on commercial.

I was going to buy a Trinity, but bought a Orbot, because of weight. Trinity weighs 110 pounds. If your using it for residential, getting it up and down steps would be difficult.

I know I have been thinking about that. But then you read about how much more the weight helps with the cleaning. If you can clean pretty much as good as a Trinity without the weight kit. Then on residential that would be the best. Like you said the steps are a big deal.

[george8585]

I'm just learning the VLM system, I want it to work. I'm 90 % TM 10 % VLM. I only due lightly soiled carpets with VLM as of now. I need to develop confidence it will work, and get faster at it. I'm in no way criticizing VLM. I have all the equipment I need to get the job done right, Orbot, Cimex, Cyclo, 13'' 175-300 Rotary, 15'' Whittaker CRB, Stepson,
Pro Team Backpack Vacuum, Pro Team XP Vacuum. In the last year I have spent well over $10,000.00 dollars on VLM Equipment pads/bonnets. I'm just trying to figure out the fastest way to get the job done right.

Nice list George. Right now I do all commercial work with a Cimex. And all residential with HCE. I am a ChemDry franchise. I want to buy a Trinity and a CRB soon. We dry in two hours or less using a RX20 type machine. And use a CD version of a Hydramaster 4.8DD unit. Results are good. But I would rather use a CRB and a wand. And then incorporate some CRb/Trinity in some residential. But I am very much in favor of encap only on commercial.

I was going to buy a Trinity, but bought a Orbot, because of weight. Trinity weighs 110 pounds. If your using it for residential, getting it up and down steps would be difficult.

I know I have been thinking about that. But then you read about how much more the weight helps with the cleaning. If you can clean pretty much as good as a Trinity without the weight kit. Then on residential that would be the best. Like you said the steps are a big deal.

Yes, but, I think on residential too much weight can cause some problems, on some carpet. I took the sprayer off my Orbot makes it easier to pick up, get up and down stairs, get in van. Don't even need a ramp. I have the weight kit, so I can ad weight if I need it.

[TheCleaningDude]

George,

Do you pre-vacuum when you HWE? Agitate with a 175?

If you do, surely that adds time to the job. I think if a HWE cleaner added those two steps - and maybe even a post bonnet dry or rake - it would take almost or just as long as VLM?

That's the great thing about HWE though. You can cut so many steps and still have the carpet looking clean.

You absolutely - imo - cannot cut corners with VLM. Pre-vac is a must, dwell is a must, etc.

For those that say customers want you in and out as soon as possible - not sure if I agree entirely with this. A lot of times customers will tell me something like, "oh the other guy was gone in an hour and I was really upset with how much I paid just to have him rush." That's not always the case of course, but I hear it regularly.

People want to know that they got their moneys worth, and time spent is one easy way to measure it.

Yes, a helper is great. Especially for two story homes. If there is one single Achilles heel that we as VLM'ers face, it's stairs. Dragging stuff up and down again - not to mention the cleaning of steps - is a time killer.

I can do 2 - 3 jobs a day with reasonable comfort. Anything above that would need to include some apartments, single story homes, etc.

[BGCD]

I'm just learning the VLM system, I want it to work. I'm 90 % TM 10 % VLM. I only due lightly soiled carpets with VLM as of now. I need to develop confidence it will work, and get faster at it. I'm in no way criticizing VLM. I have all the equipment I need to get the job done right, Orbot, Cimex, Cyclo, 13'' 175-300 Rotary, 15'' Whittaker CRB, Stepson,
Pro Team Backpack Vacuum, Pro Team XP Vacuum. In the last year I have spent well over $10,000.00 dollars on VLM Equipment pads/bonnets. I'm just trying to figure out the fastest way to get the job done right.

Nice list George. Right now I do all commercial work with a Cimex. And all residential with HCE. I am a ChemDry franchise. I want to buy a Trinity and a CRB soon. We dry in two hours or less using a RX20 type machine. And use a CD version of a Hydramaster 4.8DD unit. Results are good. But I would rather use a CRB and a wand. And then incorporate some CRb/Trinity in some residential. But I am very much in favor of encap only on commercial.

I was going to buy a Trinity, but bought a Orbot, because of weight. Trinity weighs 110 pounds. If your using it for residential, getting it up and down steps would be difficult.

I know I have been thinking about that. But then you read about how much more the weight helps with the cleaning. If you can clean pretty much as good as a Trinity without the weight kit. Then on residential that would be the best. Like you said the steps are a big deal.

Yes, but, I think on residential too much weight can cause some problems, on some carpet. I took the sprayer off my Orbot makes it easier to pick up, get up and down stairs, get in van. Don't even need a ramp. I have the weight kit, so I can ad weight if I need it.

From what I've read it is with the Orbot. But not with the Trinity. Because of the higher speed and larger orbit 1". I have barely used a Trinity and never have used a Orbot. So I'm just speaking based on what I have read. And have talked to a few Trinity owners.

I always pre vac. But here is what I was thinking. Just mixing the two. Quick pre vac, pre spray scrub in with a good prespray or buy a Duplex 420 if that would work on residential. I know it don't have renovators. But I would be post vac/raking with my Evolution wand. So that would be 3 steps. And no really heavy equipment. What do you all think? That's one advantage of HWE is Trimity out a room and gettin under beds.

[TheCleaningDude]

If you're worried about tip blooming use a glide and/or MicroBeast pad.

I have only come across TB issues when the carpet is already worn out - meaning it's pretty much already bloomed.

Nice list George. Right now I do all commercial work with a Cimex. And all residential with HCE. I am a ChemDry franchise. I want to buy a Trinity and a CRB soon. We dry in two hours or less using a RX20 type machine. And use a CD version of a Hydramaster 4.8DD unit. Results are good. But I would rather use a CRB and a wand. And then incorporate some CRb/Trinity in some residential. But I am very much in favor of encap only on commercial.

I was going to buy a Trinity, but bought a Orbot, because of weight. Trinity weighs 110 pounds. If your using it for residential, getting it up and down steps would be difficult.

I know I have been thinking about that. But then you read about how much more the weight helps with the cleaning. If you can clean pretty much as good as a Trinity without the weight kit. Then on residential that would be the best. Like you said the steps are a big deal.

Yes, but, I think on residential too much weight can cause some problems, on some carpet. I took the sprayer off my Orbot makes it easier to pick up, get up and down stairs, get in van. Don't even need a ramp. I have the weight kit, so I can ad weight if I need it.

From what I've read it is with the Orbot. But not with the Trinity. Because of the higher speed and larger orbit 1". I have barely used a Trinity and never have used a Orbot. So I'm just speaking based on what I have read. And have talked to a few Trinity owners.

[george8585]

If you're worried about tip blooming use a glide and/or MicroBeast pad.

I have only come across TB issues when the carpet is already worn out - meaning it's pretty much already bloomed.

I was going to buy a Trinity, but bought a Orbot, because of weight. Trinity weighs 110 pounds. If your using it for residential, getting it up and down steps would be difficult.

I know I have been thinking about that. But then you read about how much more the weight helps with the cleaning. If you can clean pretty much as good as a Trinity without the weight kit. Then on residential that would be the best. Like you said the steps are a big deal.

Yes, but, I think on residential too much weight can cause some problems, on some carpet. I took the sprayer off my Orbot makes it easier to pick up, get up and down stairs, get in van. Don't even need a ramp. I have the weight kit, so I can ad weight if I need it.

From what I've read it is with the Orbot. But not with the Trinity. Because of the higher speed and larger orbit 1". I have barely used a Trinity and never have used a Orbot. So I'm just speaking based on what I have read. And have talked to a few Trinity owners.

Yea, your probably right. I would like to get a Trinty for the Lawyer offices I do, and use Cimex for big open areas, Orbot for residential, Truckmount for restaurants, and heavily soiled residential.

[TheCleaningDude]

George, what are your thoughts on my comments regarding pre-vac and pre-scrub being the great equalizer between HWE and VLM?

Would like to hear your perspective as a HWE guy.

[george8585]

No, I'm not worried about tip bloom. I do use a glider and microfiber/strips pad followed by superzorb. I have not done that much VLM, and have never seen tip bloom. I have only done lightly soiled carpet with VLM. I don't have the confidence to do tough jobs yet. Some small apartments I CRB and then use my 13'' rotary with cotton pads.